And if it is all the way out, will the valve plug assy come out without disassembling stuff from the top end? I got the front wheel off and spring pressure has it extended all the way. I'd rather put the axle in and loosen it while the forks are on the bike instead of in the vice. Mainly because I don't have a vice in my living room where I'm doing this.

 

FD, I'm not sure how the instructions are explaining the process there. I do know that the factory manual is at a point with the forks completely apart except for the cylinder valve assembly (compression stack) still bolted into the cylinder unit...I would normally refer to the cylinder unit as the damper rod. The compression stack and damper rod are still contained in the lower leg at this point.

Do your instructions suggest taking the compression stack out of the lower leg without the lower leg detached from the rest of the fork? I understand David took his compression stacks out without disassembling the fork. I tried to zip those units out with a 1/2" drive impact, but all they did was spin in the damper rod. I was replacing the fork bushings and seals, so I was stipping the fork down anyway. The reason the damper rod holding tool is said to be required is that the compression stack usually does just spin in the damper rod because they put some strong loctite on the compression bolt threads. The fork has to be disassembled to get the damping rod holding tool into the top end of the damping rod. Now, it probably does help if the fork is fully loaded with the springs pushing against the damper rod, but they still usually spin. Assembly also usually requires the damper rod holding tool because of the reverse case of the damper rod just spinning.

 

There's no instructions other than putting together the valve stuff. So, let's see if I get this right. The spring and center rod need to come out from the top. Then I need to reach in with a custom tool and hold it from the inside while I unscrew the bottom plug? Now is my fork tube all the way out or all the way in when I do this? What does this tool look like?

Another thing. If I were to unscrew the bottom plug with it assembled, would oil drain out that hole?

 

What I did was hang the bike by the front tire and spin the valve out the bottom. I have done this every time I worked on forks with out problems. It seems I am the only one with a little luck on my side.


FD if you take the valve out with the fork in its regular position oil will run out.

Its POSSIBLE you could take a rachet strap and pull the front tire way up to the handlebars (compress the springs) then try to take out the valve from the bottom. I am THINKING the compression on the springs will help get the lower valve or plug or what ever it is out.

Mine had no locktite on the threads.

Once the valve is out, you are home free. If you do not have an impact wrench it may not be possible to do. For removal or installation.

My thoughts on the tool. TNC says its 30mm OD, I was just going to use a cheap chineese socket with that OD and cut the fingers in it with a grinder. (can you tell I am a welder?) It only has to hold the tube from turning while you take out the bottom plug. Perhaps even a large wide screwdriver blade type thing would do the trick. Racetech has the tool for $59.00, I am way too cheap to purchase it.

The down side of the way I did the forks is I did not take them apart, I did not see the rebound valve at all or the way the forks work. I just changed the compression control valve.


I did read up on the fork oil it seems you dirt guys use 5 wt or 4.5 wt in the forks. I was totally wrong.

David

 

Well, I don't have an impact gun but I do have a 14MM hex key and a Mississippi torque wrench (3 feet of 3/4" gas pipe).

 

Hey David...good info. Are you saying you had the bike upside down? I was curious how you didn't lose oil. The compression stack at the bottom of the fork...the part with the 14mm allen nut...will have oil in it, because that's where the compression cycle forces oil through the shims. If the fork is upside down and still assembled and you're able to spin the compression stack out with an impact wrench, little to no oil will be lost. I know you realize that if you lose a bunch of oil, you can add oil, pump the fork a lot, and then check the oil level according to the instructions from Moto Pro...or at least MP should have given a recommendation of an oil level with the new valving. Race Tech sent me settings for stuff like oil level and compression adjuster turns as affected by the new valving.

It's interesting that David's compression valve bolt didn't have loctite on it. You even see in the factory manual for the KLX250S where they tell you to reapply loctite on this bolt upon reassembly. Maybe because David's is an SF, all factors are not the same. I think the dirt models will have loctite applied. I even had to wire brush the old loctite off for reassembly.

FD, on the holding tool, it's not hard to make one out of various possible candidates if you can't get the bolt out with the fork assembled. Still, I think you're gonna need an impact wrench at least. And without a holding tool to reassemble the bolt, it may be hard to apply proper torque without the damper rod spinning. It doesn't take a lot of pressure from the holding tool to secure the damper rod. I made my holding tool out of an aluminum bicycle seatpost. It was easy to use a hand file and hacksaw to put 4 "ears" on the end of the aluminum post. I then drilled a hole in the other end of the post to stick a phillips screwdriver to hold the post from turning while engaged in the damper rod. My seatpost wasn't as long as the factory holding tool, so I had to compress the lower fork leg to engage the modded seatpost/holding tool into the top of the damper rod.

FD, some good instructions from Moto Pro or the factory manual would help here. Race Tech sent a DVD for the fork revalving and another for the rear shock. I probably learned more from watching Paul Thede of RT giving a very detailed tutorial about the workings of the suspension while acutally walking me through disassembly and reassembly. Very good stuff. For future reference for others thinking about revalving their suspension, I recommend doing the Race Tech Gold Valve kit if you're going to do it yourself. The instructions and guideance alone are worth it. If you're going to have someone else do the work, I recommend John at Moto Pro. His service will probably be more personalized, and his work has a good history. I think the parts involved are probably of equal quality from either source. I just think RT has a better program for do-it-yourself'ers.

 

In my first post:

I know its not "Normal" or "Usual" or even in the book. I do things funny, just look at my muffler. I have been accused of this all my life. BUT I did the fork valve job in about 1.5 hours start to finish. I hoisted the bike so I would not loose any oil. If I did, then I would of needed to take them apart to refill, measure etc.

Once the valves were out, I did the re valve then put them back in. They screwed in with my fingers until the Oring engaged then I used a rachet and socket to turn the allen wrench. Once they would not get any tighter (the thing inside was turning) I used the impact. Just a little blast then checked it by hand. Then a little more and check with hand.... I got it where I wanted it. I did one side at a time because I thought maybe If I took out both valves the bike would fall on the floor,.,. This was my first time with inverted forks.

By the way how the heck DO I put on a fork brace ?

From what I have read, the S model has a 5.8 spring for stock. The SF model has a 6.8 spring stock. Both say they are made for a 160 lb rider. The SF has a longer lowering link (bike is 1" lower) so I THINK it needs a bigger rear spring.

I think they did a pretty good job on the SF model. It seems to be geared perfect, front springs ARE stiffer, Brakes are bigger and stop as good as my BMW with dual brembros. 1/2 the weight, 1/2 the brakes. Both have 320mm rotor, just 2 on the beemer.

I wish I could report more on the front fork valves, but still in the teens here with lots O wind today.

I took a bunch of pictures of the old valves and to be honest, I can't figure out how the oil gets through them on compression at all. The moto pro valves make perfect sense to me. Pressure bends the springy washers. Want more pressure? Just make the washers thicker or more of em. I can post the pictures of the old valves if anyone can tell me where the oil goes and how it gets through. The return side for rebound is simple enough, its just a check valve.

David

 

Ah ha...some of what you've said before makes a lot more sense now. I wasn't getting the picture of how you positioned the bike to get the valves out without losing oil...now I get it. Hey...nothing wrong with using unconventional methods if you can get them to work. My bicycle seatpost isn't something you'll see in the manual either...LOL!

It's still surprising they didn't have loctite on the allen bolts, but from what you're saying about the rest of the suspension specs, the S and SF have some notable differences. That 6.8 spring says a lot about how different the bikes are, but it makes sense for pavement priority.

On the old compression valves, they work just like the MP or RT valves, but the holes and flow characteristics are pretty sucky. It's almost like KYB was scared that the shims might actually funtion with some oil going through them...LOL! On the other hand, maybe the SF valves are a bit different than the S models. On the rebound, it's contained inside the damper rod, and you really have to know what you're doing to tear inside there. Rick at Cogent Dynamics...the KLR/DR Moab shock people...has a KLX "S", and he tore into his and modded it. I understood from him that that there are shims in the rebound circuit, and he did mod his with different shims. He has access to a fork and shock dyno and came up with a proper shim stack and a rebound circuit adjuster on the top cap...pretty cool. I haven't seen his setup and am only going from conversations I've had on the phone with him.

On the fork brace, that's an interesting question. I've never seen one for a USD fork, but that doesn't mean something doesn't exist.

 

Well noted. I got the left fork leg off, drained, and spring removed. My friend is going to make the tool tonight at work. We're getting there.

 

Excellent! Show us a pic of your homemade tool when you get it. It's always fun to see how we get around those fancy, high dollar, factory, special tools.

FD, if your bike has any decent mileage on the fork seals, now is a good time to change seals. As you can see, they're a bugger to get to, and it's cheap insurance to change them now. I also did my fork bushings, as you can see they're easy to get to and not that expensive, and require no special tools to remove. My fork had about 11,000 miles on it. On the seals BTW, I tried some aftermarket seals and was not happy with their integrity. My shop said the OEM replacement Kawasaki seals...factory KYB...were about as good as it gets. I gotta agree. They've been trouble free and totally clean.