Shift Star - Design Change

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Old May 15, 2012 | 06:13 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by e36graduate
Newbie with 09 klx250r and researching some of my issues with shifting that may be a symptom of a failing or worn shift star...looking for some advice. When I'm riding with bike hot or cold.....on occassion when I'm coming to a stop and down shifting, sometimes I will not get into 1st gear...i will have to play with the shifter and sometimes have to let out of the clutch a little to get her into 1st gear to start out again.

Shifting from 1st to 6th is no problem at all and very smooth...it's just once in a while I will be sitting at a light and trying to shift into 1st gear. I have found that if I downshift while moving coming to a stop it usually goes into 1st gear everytime...its just if you are sitting there it might not get all the way into neutral or 1st......thoughts? oh, i do know how to ride and shift and the clutch is in great condition (2000 miles on bike). Oil is 10-40 synthetic and recently changed.
I think that is a trait of motorcycle gearboxes, no? Every motorcycle I have owned since my first bike in 1981 has been this way. My 09 250s is the same, sometimes it sticks, yet is easily avoided/remedied.
 
Old May 17, 2012 | 03:16 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by e36graduate
Newbie with 09 klx250r and researching some of my issues with shifting that may be a symptom of a failing or worn shift star...looking for some advice. When I'm riding with bike hot or cold.....on occassion when I'm coming to a stop and down shifting, sometimes I will not get into 1st gear...i will have to play with the shifter and sometimes have to let out of the clutch a little to get her into 1st gear to start out again.

Shifting from 1st to 6th is no problem at all and very smooth...it's just once in a while I will be sitting at a light and trying to shift into 1st gear. I have found that if I downshift while moving coming to a stop it usually goes into 1st gear everytime...its just if you are sitting there it might not get all the way into neutral or 1st......thoughts? oh, i do know how to ride and shift and the clutch is in great condition (2000 miles on bike). Oil is 10-40 synthetic and recently changed.

I had this happen to me on my first ride with only 3 miles on my 2010 klx. I was stopped at a light with cars behind me, Not knowing why I couldn"t get it in gear I kicked the shift leaver with the heal of my foot. I got it in gear but I bent the shifter under the gear box in the proses. I had to ride home in first gear.
That is'nt what broke my shift star, but I'm sure it didn't help. I broke mine a while later when I was taking it off the bike stand after the first oil change. The new one I got from the dealer was the pre-09 star. I've had no problems shifting sense. I think the deep lobes on the new style hold the shift fork harder.
 
Old May 17, 2012 | 04:23 AM
  #73  
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Check out the planetklx and four stroke works sites for the spring preload mod and profile of the modded shift star.
 
Old May 18, 2012 | 01:25 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by e36graduate
Newbie with 09 klx250r and researching some of my issues with shifting that may be a symptom of a failing or worn shift star...looking for some advice. When I'm riding with bike hot or cold.....on occassion when I'm coming to a stop and down shifting, sometimes I will not get into 1st gear...i will have to play with the shifter and sometimes have to let out of the clutch a little to get her into 1st gear to start out again.

Shifting from 1st to 6th is no problem at all and very smooth...it's just once in a while I will be sitting at a light and trying to shift into 1st gear. I have found that if I downshift while moving coming to a stop it usually goes into 1st gear everytime...its just if you are sitting there it might not get all the way into neutral or 1st......thoughts? oh, i do know how to ride and shift and the clutch is in great condition (2000 miles on bike). Oil is 10-40 synthetic and recently changed.
Originally Posted by whyzee
I think that is a trait of motorcycle gearboxes, no? Every motorcycle I have owned since my first bike in 1981 has been this way. My 09 250s is the same, sometimes it sticks, yet is easily avoided/remedied.
Yep, what you're experiencing is probably due to the charateristics of this type of transmission in general, and this model specifically (the KLX doesn't have the best shifting tranny out there). In any case, the shift star doesn't really wear out or slowly go bad - it's either broken or not - so you should be thinking elsewhere at this point.

In this type of transmission, you're moving internal parts with each shift, and they require relative motion to allow all the parts into the correct positions with each shift. The source of relative motion is either the output shaft turning while the bike is rolling or the input shaft turning from the engine running with clutch engaged. If you downshift through a number of gears with the clutch pulled in at a stop, you have eliminated both sources of relative motion, and you often will not be able to shift through all the gears at once; if you do get to neutral, you probably won't get to first without some taking some other action. Same thing happens when trying to shift through the gears with the engine off and the bike stationary.

In short, if you downshift while moving and let out the clutch at some point (even just partially and momentarily), your problem will probably go away. Alternatively, if you pull the clutch while moving and downshift all the way to neutral and roll to a stop, then you should let out the clutch at least once while stopped in neutral to allow the transmission internals to 'reset' - this should be enough to allow you to shift into first.

Now, it does seem that the KLX is more stubborn than most at going into first gear anyway - I believe this is due to the design/dimensions of the gear change mechanism parts. However, some people have crashed and bent a stop pin in the mechanism, which can make getting into first gear very difficult or impossible - but as discussed before, this is not likely the problem you're having.
 
Old May 18, 2012 | 02:50 AM
  #75  
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Thanks Lutz....makes a LOT of sense. Yes, i agree....I've been trying to down shift, letting out the clutch in each gear and coming to a stop whith the bike in 1st gear and clutch in and seems to just about every time. Once in a while I'll have to rock the bike back and forth or pull in the clutch a little to get the gears to change while sitting still......guess I'm starting to get the hang of this bike.
 
Old Jul 10, 2012 | 01:43 AM
  #76  
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maybe off topic, but in order to pull off a clean up shift or down shift the lever needs to return to center each time .

On my 06 it seems the spring that re centers the mechanism is light compared to many other bikes I've owned, along with the throw being a little longer.

The 2 combined will make me miss a few shifts for a bit till I get used to the mechanics of how to shift it compared to my other bikes. Than I'm fine and the box works great, no complaints.

where I really notices it is rolling up to a stop click click click down through the gears, if I let my foot rest too much on the petal (like I can get away with some other bikes) I end up missing a few downshifts and being in too high a gear when restarting.

my missed up shifts are always from not letting the shifter return to center, more noticeable with my big riding boot till I adjust.

If I'm ever inside of the case I will explore springing it heavier, I think the o6 shift start is fine.
 

Last edited by RimBender; Jul 10, 2012 at 01:53 AM.
Old Aug 16, 2012 | 09:34 PM
  #77  
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This is really interesting. Lutz I have a 2009 and I broke one of the pins on the shift star... the 1st gear. I ordered a new one and it was the one on the left in your picture. I put it in my bike and the bike still wont shift below 2nd which is the problem I had with the broken one. Any Ideas??
 
Old Aug 17, 2012 | 07:17 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by TheBikeRider
This is really interesting. Lutz I have a 2009 and I broke one of the pins on the shift star... the 1st gear. I ordered a new one and it was the one on the left in your picture. I put it in my bike and the bike still wont shift below 2nd which is the problem I had with the broken one. Any Ideas??
I think you posted elsewhere that you checked the rest of the parts and none were bent. However, I think you should recheck the stud/pin that stops the up and down travel of the fork that engages the shift star. (Sorry I don't remember the correct Kawasaki name and part number - I'll try to find them later when I get a chance). At least one other user here (it was dan888; here's the link https://www.kawasakiforums.com/forum...ar-gone-34237/ ) had bent that stud to a point that it would not allow downshifting into first gear. You might not be able to tell it's bent with it installed, so to be sure, you should remove it for a closer look.

Before we get too far, though, I'm assuming you've actually been riding the bike since changing the shift star, and the problem is ocurring when riding. Also, I'm assuming that the bike will shift just fine out of second gear into neutral; or in other words, every time you go for first it stops in neutral.
 

Last edited by Lutz; Aug 17, 2012 at 07:44 PM.
Old Aug 17, 2012 | 09:46 PM
  #79  
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I know these threads wander a bit -

But in the interest of making 250's and 300's shift -

Factory Pro is making a microbearing detent arm that reduces friction on the shift drum rotation - maybe helping keep the arm from high centering on the peak of the star.
They have been making stars and shift stuff for a long time.

That original stock Kaw star with the relief near the pins is pretty scary........

Shift Kit - eliminate missed shifts, KLX250s and KLX250sf 09-12 | eBay

What does the shift shaft "stopper" stud look like?
Is it 8mm and stock out of the case about 3/4"?
They've got a heat treated adjustable one one - Eccentric.
 

Last edited by marc99; Aug 17, 2012 at 09:54 PM.
Old Aug 18, 2012 | 12:02 AM
  #80  
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That's great info! I've thought about making a roller detent arm myself, as i'm sure it would help(see post #67). No need to do it myself now that it's available (and at a reasonable price, too).

The shift shaft stopper stud sounds about like your description (I haven't had mine out to measure) - there's good pictures in the link I posted above. Likewise, if the available part fits the klx, it could be advantageous. I've also thought about taking some material off the top of the stock pin to make engaging first more positive...an eccentric would do the same quite nicely. Is there a link to the eccentric stud?
 

Last edited by Lutz; Aug 18, 2012 at 12:16 AM.



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