Need advice on trespassing charge on unmarked/ungated trails
#1
04-27-2009, 02:28 AM
Need advice on trespassing charge on unmarked/ungated trails
it was myself on a street legal klx250s, a yfz450, and a wr250 (dirt bike). we were headed down a small portion of trail that was around a 1/2 mile long between two blacktop roads. we had DCNR jump out of the woods and block us off. if i didnt have a plate they would have been chewing gravel. anyways..
we were told we were on rails to trails and that we were trespassing. at this point i clued the officer in to the fact my bike was a street legal machine, not a dirt bike. this is a factor because since trout season opened rails to trails opened all the gates on the gated sections to allow people to drive in to fish. at this point he told me that i could leave after viewing all my information pertaining to reg/insurance/inspection. i told him i was gonna wait for my friends. after he talked to the other 2 riders for a bit and did some talking on his radio he took all our info and told us he had to contact the rails to trails head to see if they wanted to issue citations.
here is where i think we should fight.
1. neither end of the trail entrance is gated nor marked with any kind of sign what so ever.
i had a helmet cam on that caught both directions of the trail and the complete lack of gates/signs. also got the whole encounter with these officers too
2. the clearly marked and gated trails were open to traffic due to the recent opening of trout season to allow access to the river. my machine is a street legal bike so id say their may be something to stand on their also.
anyone had to deal with this? specifically in Pennsylvania.
i did a little googling and came up with this regarding PA trespassing laws:
advice? experience? any input? ill be checking the mail daily for the next 2 months waiting on a citation now :|
we were told we were on rails to trails and that we were trespassing. at this point i clued the officer in to the fact my bike was a street legal machine, not a dirt bike. this is a factor because since trout season opened rails to trails opened all the gates on the gated sections to allow people to drive in to fish. at this point he told me that i could leave after viewing all my information pertaining to reg/insurance/inspection. i told him i was gonna wait for my friends. after he talked to the other 2 riders for a bit and did some talking on his radio he took all our info and told us he had to contact the rails to trails head to see if they wanted to issue citations.
here is where i think we should fight.
1. neither end of the trail entrance is gated nor marked with any kind of sign what so ever.
i had a helmet cam on that caught both directions of the trail and the complete lack of gates/signs. also got the whole encounter with these officers too
2. the clearly marked and gated trails were open to traffic due to the recent opening of trout season to allow access to the river. my machine is a street legal bike so id say their may be something to stand on their also.
anyone had to deal with this? specifically in Pennsylvania.
i did a little googling and came up with this regarding PA trespassing laws:
18 Pa. C.S.A. § 3503: Relating to Criminal Trespass (quoted in full)
b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to exclude intruders;
(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention at each entrance of school grounds that visitors are prohibited without authorization from a designated school, center or program official; or
(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave school grounds as communicated by a school, center or program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement officer. (2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v) constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it is a summary offense.
(b.1) Simple trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place for the purpose of:
(i) threatening or terrorizing the owner or occupant of the premises; (ii) starting or causing to be started any fire upon the premises; or (iii) defacing or damaging the premises. (2) An offense under this subsection constitutes a summary offense.
(b.2) Agricultural trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so he:
(i) enters or remains on any agricultural or other open lands when such lands are posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention or are fenced or enclosed in a manner manifestly designed to exclude trespassers or to confine domestic animals; or
(ii) enters or remains on any agricultural or other open lands and defies an order not to enter or to leave that has been personally communicated to him by the owner of the lands or other authorized person. (2) An offense under this subsection shall be graded as follows:
(i) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree and is punishable by imprisonment for a term of not more than one year and a fine of not less than $250.
(ii) An offense under paragraph (1)(ii) constitutes a misdemeanor of the second degree and is punishable by imprisonment
b) Defiant trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:
(i) actual communication to the actor;
(ii) posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders;
(iii) fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to exclude intruders;
(iv) notices posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention at each entrance of school grounds that visitors are prohibited without authorization from a designated school, center or program official; or
(v) an actual communication to the actor to leave school grounds as communicated by a school, center or program official, employee or agent or a law enforcement officer. (2) Except as provided in paragraph (1)(v), an offense under this subsection constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree if the offender defies an order to leave personally communicated to him by the owner of the premises or other authorized person. An offense under paragraph (1)(v) constitutes a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise it is a summary offense.
(b.1) Simple trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place for the purpose of:
(i) threatening or terrorizing the owner or occupant of the premises; (ii) starting or causing to be started any fire upon the premises; or (iii) defacing or damaging the premises. (2) An offense under this subsection constitutes a summary offense.
(b.2) Agricultural trespasser.--
(1) A person commits an offense if knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so he:
(i) enters or remains on any agricultural or other open lands when such lands are posted in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the person's attention or are fenced or enclosed in a manner manifestly designed to exclude trespassers or to confine domestic animals; or
(ii) enters or remains on any agricultural or other open lands and defies an order not to enter or to leave that has been personally communicated to him by the owner of the lands or other authorized person. (2) An offense under this subsection shall be graded as follows:
(i) An offense under paragraph (1)(i) constitutes a misdemeanor of the third degree and is punishable by imprisonment for a term of not more than one year and a fine of not less than $250.
(ii) An offense under paragraph (1)(ii) constitutes a misdemeanor of the second degree and is punishable by imprisonment
#2
04-27-2009, 02:48 AM
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mountain Top, Pa
Posts: 105
That sucks, however, having the camera on is probably the most awesome thing I ever heard! I'd love to take that to court. THE OFFICER AND MADGE WILL **** THEIR PANTS.
#5
04-27-2009, 03:26 AM
I had something like that happen, but i came out of the woods with a shovel, just so happens conservation officer is right their. Ended up getting a trespassing fine and there was no signs. I would have fought it but he search my bag and found some herb. I got lucky, he just made me dump it. I could have gottin into some serious $hit. Thats why i didn't fight mine.
#6
04-27-2009, 03:33 AM
im afraid my friends may have a hard time beating their citations (if they get them). although if my interpretation of the quoted law is right, if property isnt posted/gated/fenced and they werent verbally told so, it isnt trespassing. myself, i should be able to easily knock it out of court with the fact that not only was the trail not gated/fenced/posted but that the other trails they run that are gated are open for people to drive on as stated before.
#8
04-27-2009, 06:19 AM
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Washington
Posts: 21,060
I have an e-mail from the DNR guy in charge of recreation here in Washington that states that if a gate (DNR) is not signed then you can legally go around it and ride, regardless of whether it is a street legal bike. I'll see if I can dig it up and get you in contact with the right person.
