Kick Starting -- What's going on?
#21
01-30-2012, 02:35 PM
Some of this came up on another recent post, but do you know where your valves are adjusted at this point? When the valves are adjusted properly, the starter jet is drilled, and the KACR is not malfunctioning, these bikes are not hard to start. Something has to be wrong. Having to lay the bike on its side, dribble fuel into the combustion chamber, or shoot fuel into the intake tract is just silly for a 21st century motorcycle. Something isn't working, is out of adjustment, or broken. And seriously, I'm not bashing anyone for their efforts, but these bandaids are not the answer. I don't have a kickstart on mine, and I'm not adding one. Get everything operating properly and you don't have to worry about being stranded. I ride by myself out in some really remote hinterlands at times, and this bike doesn't strike me as being an unreliable starter...once you get everything up to proper operating level.
Adjust the valves and keep them on the loose side. Completely clean the carb and passageways with carb cleaner and compressed air. Drill the starter jet. Set the fuel level by the clear tube method. Install a fresh spark plug. Do a compression check to see if the pressure is up in the 120psi range. A pressure noticeably lower than that may indicate a KACR timing or operation problem. My 10,000+ mile KLX with its original 250 jug yielded 125psi in a compression test. You need fuel, air, and spark to start, but obviously you need enough compression to draw fuel and compress it for starting.
If you perform these steps and still have starting issues, you may have to move on to the ignition system. Though rare, it is possible.
Adjust the valves and keep them on the loose side. Completely clean the carb and passageways with carb cleaner and compressed air. Drill the starter jet. Set the fuel level by the clear tube method. Install a fresh spark plug. Do a compression check to see if the pressure is up in the 120psi range. A pressure noticeably lower than that may indicate a KACR timing or operation problem. My 10,000+ mile KLX with its original 250 jug yielded 125psi in a compression test. You need fuel, air, and spark to start, but obviously you need enough compression to draw fuel and compress it for starting.
If you perform these steps and still have starting issues, you may have to move on to the ignition system. Though rare, it is possible.
#23
01-30-2012, 03:43 PM
Some of this came up on another recent post, but do you know where your valves are adjusted at this point? When the valves are adjusted properly, the starter jet is drilled, and the KACR is not malfunctioning, these bikes are not hard to start. Something has to be wrong. Having to lay the bike on its side, dribble fuel into the combustion chamber, or shoot fuel into the intake tract is just silly for a 21st century motorcycle. Something isn't working, is out of adjustment, or broken. And seriously, I'm not bashing anyone for their efforts, but these bandaids are not the answer. I don't have a kickstart on mine, and I'm not adding one. Get everything operating properly and you don't have to worry about being stranded. I ride by myself out in some really remote hinterlands at times, and this bike doesn't strike me as being an unreliable starter...once you get everything up to proper operating level.
Adjust the valves and keep them on the loose side. Completely clean the carb and passageways with carb cleaner and compressed air. Drill the starter jet. Set the fuel level by the clear tube method. Install a fresh spark plug. Do a compression check to see if the pressure is up in the 120psi range. A pressure noticeably lower than that may indicate a KACR timing or operation problem. My 10,000+ mile KLX with its original 250 jug yielded 125psi in a compression test. You need fuel, air, and spark to start, but obviously you need enough compression to draw fuel and compress it for starting.
If you perform these steps and still have starting issues, you may have to move on to the ignition system. Though rare, it is possible.
Adjust the valves and keep them on the loose side. Completely clean the carb and passageways with carb cleaner and compressed air. Drill the starter jet. Set the fuel level by the clear tube method. Install a fresh spark plug. Do a compression check to see if the pressure is up in the 120psi range. A pressure noticeably lower than that may indicate a KACR timing or operation problem. My 10,000+ mile KLX with its original 250 jug yielded 125psi in a compression test. You need fuel, air, and spark to start, but obviously you need enough compression to draw fuel and compress it for starting.
If you perform these steps and still have starting issues, you may have to move on to the ignition system. Though rare, it is possible.
My technique might be lacking. That being said, I rebuilt a 1974 Honda that I could kick start in 3 tries, every time. It had 4 carbs, 4 cylinders and no ACR.
Spark plug is new.
I haven't check the valves, only because the bike has just over 3100 miles. I'll try to do that today.
I'll check compression as well.
Jon
#24
01-30-2012, 05:04 PM
TNC, that's because my Husky was made in the 20th century......no electric starter on this chainsaw.
(Couldn't resist a gentle poke. No offense intended, and yes, point well made about being in proper tune.)
(Couldn't resist a gentle poke. No offense intended, and yes, point well made about being in proper tune.)
Last edited by jeffzx9; 01-30-2012 at 05:15 PM.
#25
01-30-2012, 10:52 PM
Installed primer (jetski) in fuel line and epoxied brass fitting on intake side of carb. Gave it 3 primes... no start. My leg is actually worn out from kicking so much over the last several days. Never seen anything like it.
Didn't check the valves, and to be quite honest, I don't have the desire. My patience for this machine has grown pretty thin.
Bike is going on the market tomorrow. I'm done.
I had no intention of buying a project bike.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Didn't check the valves, and to be quite honest, I don't have the desire. My patience for this machine has grown pretty thin.
Bike is going on the market tomorrow. I'm done.
I had no intention of buying a project bike.
Thanks for all the help guys.
#26
01-30-2012, 10:53 PM
@TNC:"*Having to lay the bike on its side, dribble fuel into the combustion chamber, or shoot fuel into the intake tract is just silly for a 21st century motorcycle." *Amen! Truer words are rare!
What's even sillier is that so much tinkering has been required of so many owners of these bikes, right out of the box, to get them to start. *One expects that it will require mechanical knowledge, a tool box, and spare time to get a vintage BSA started, but NOT a 2009 Kawasaki...
Like TNC I have no intention of adding a kick starter but I have tried all the common cold start remedies with little luck and I am now at the point of reviewing the KACR's operation. *In the meantime I am having good success with a snowmobile primer bulb which eases starting using the same principle as the 'ticklers' on old Amal carbs.
I would welcome thoughts or advice from any one who has modified, adjusted or disabled the supposedly maintenance-free KACR before I tear into it myself. *The shop manual is of little assistance in this regard.
Typographical errors by*iPhone
What's even sillier is that so much tinkering has been required of so many owners of these bikes, right out of the box, to get them to start. *One expects that it will require mechanical knowledge, a tool box, and spare time to get a vintage BSA started, but NOT a 2009 Kawasaki...
Like TNC I have no intention of adding a kick starter but I have tried all the common cold start remedies with little luck and I am now at the point of reviewing the KACR's operation. *In the meantime I am having good success with a snowmobile primer bulb which eases starting using the same principle as the 'ticklers' on old Amal carbs.
I would welcome thoughts or advice from any one who has modified, adjusted or disabled the supposedly maintenance-free KACR before I tear into it myself. *The shop manual is of little assistance in this regard.
Typographical errors by*iPhone
#27
01-30-2012, 11:37 PM
All the wacky starting techniques are great but the bike should start without them. I fixed my cold start issue by drilling the enricher (choke) jet. I think the OP already said he did this. Running it dry etc, etc, should not have to be an option.
On the necessity of a kick-start. I would love to have one, but I am also confident that I can bump start it (all by my self). I had to do so once ,while riding alone in the mountains , 10 miles from anything. I pulled up to an overlook, and intentionally stalled the bike. I then forgot to turn the key off.
(Hi, I'm running my battery down right now!!)
I had to drag the bike 30-40 feet up the trail, roll it down and pop the clutch.
On the hard kick start , I don't really think this is your problem but I had an old KLR that was kick start only, and I would kick it until I was blue in the face. I eventually learned that the cam chain was shot , and now think that the cam chain was most of my starting problem. Like I said probably not your issue, but might be something to check.
Good luck.
Dan
On the necessity of a kick-start. I would love to have one, but I am also confident that I can bump start it (all by my self). I had to do so once ,while riding alone in the mountains , 10 miles from anything. I pulled up to an overlook, and intentionally stalled the bike. I then forgot to turn the key off.
(Hi, I'm running my battery down right now!!)
I had to drag the bike 30-40 feet up the trail, roll it down and pop the clutch.
On the hard kick start , I don't really think this is your problem but I had an old KLR that was kick start only, and I would kick it until I was blue in the face. I eventually learned that the cam chain was shot , and now think that the cam chain was most of my starting problem. Like I said probably not your issue, but might be something to check.
Good luck.
Dan
#28
01-31-2012, 12:55 AM
@jworth94: Your frustration is understandable but it's none the less regrettable that you'll be giving up on what is otherwise a pretty cool, if somewhat underpowered, little machine.
dan888 is right, we shouldn't need to resort to wacky starting techniques, but we do, hence the frustration. *
Understanding it's a bandaid, try mounting the primer inline straight to the carb without using the brass fitting you installed in the manifold. *This configuration raises the fuel level in the bowl temporarily while starting. *This is as close to a solution I have found after drilling the jet and checking the valves failed to *significantly improve the cold starting for me. *My next target is the KARC but I confess there are days I consider just selling it too; I have other project bikes that I'd rather be working on. *However, If I were to total my own hours into trying to get the KLX to start I couldn't afford to sell it even if I wanted to!
Typographical errors by*iPhone
dan888 is right, we shouldn't need to resort to wacky starting techniques, but we do, hence the frustration. *
Understanding it's a bandaid, try mounting the primer inline straight to the carb without using the brass fitting you installed in the manifold. *This configuration raises the fuel level in the bowl temporarily while starting. *This is as close to a solution I have found after drilling the jet and checking the valves failed to *significantly improve the cold starting for me. *My next target is the KARC but I confess there are days I consider just selling it too; I have other project bikes that I'd rather be working on. *However, If I were to total my own hours into trying to get the KLX to start I couldn't afford to sell it even if I wanted to!
Typographical errors by*iPhone
#29
01-31-2012, 01:18 PM
OK here is the deal I learned on starting with the stock carberator, and it may be your problem....... If you turn the throttle any... I said any!.. on a cold morning, and hit the starter.... forget it, your done! Starting procedure, ignition, full choke, no throttle, kick till it starts. I don't believe the stock carb has a pump, so twisting the thottle does not get you anywhere prior to kicking. If you twist the throttle while kicking with the stock carb, it opens up the butterfly & reduces the pressure to suck gas through the carb.
Why dont you leave the kickstarter off & use the elec start/that would be easier than selling the bike..... your kickstarter does not solve any issue. I prefer the e-start, believe me, when you just came out of a ravine or gorge, and kill it with the back tire 6" from the abis, grab the front brake, hit the starter, slip the clutch and your off!
Why dont you leave the kickstarter off & use the elec start/that would be easier than selling the bike..... your kickstarter does not solve any issue. I prefer the e-start, believe me, when you just came out of a ravine or gorge, and kill it with the back tire 6" from the abis, grab the front brake, hit the starter, slip the clutch and your off!
#30
01-31-2012, 08:24 PM
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kennewick Washington, in the washington desert
Posts: 741
OK here is the deal I learned on starting with the stock carberator, and it may be your problem....... If you turn the throttle any... I said any!.. on a cold morning, and hit the starter.... forget it, your done! Starting procedure, ignition, full choke, no throttle, kick till it starts. I don't believe the stock carb has a pump, so twisting the thottle does not get you anywhere prior to kicking. If you twist the throttle while kicking with the stock carb, it opens up the butterfly & reduces the pressure to suck gas through the carb.
Why dont you leave the kickstarter off & use the elec start/that would be easier than selling the bike..... your kickstarter does not solve any issue. I prefer the e-start, believe me, when you just came out of a ravine or gorge, and kill it with the back tire 6" from the abis, grab the front brake, hit the starter, slip the clutch and your off!
Why dont you leave the kickstarter off & use the elec start/that would be easier than selling the bike..... your kickstarter does not solve any issue. I prefer the e-start, believe me, when you just came out of a ravine or gorge, and kill it with the back tire 6" from the abis, grab the front brake, hit the starter, slip the clutch and your off!
