Anyone do the secondary throttle plate removal mod?
#5
I'd like to see some discussion on about why to do it though, whats it's function normally and why would you want to get rid of it and what does that do with the efi programming? What is it that it is normally supposed to be doing?
#6
It may be better understood if you think about your old 4-barrel automotive carb. Those secondary throttle plates are usually designed to come on more progressively to the primary throttle plates so that you don't get the fuel surge or excessive fuel/air dump into the combustion chambers.
In motorcycles this is more applicable to fuel injection if I'm thinking correctly...not to say there have never been bike carbs with a primary and secondary throttle plate...but I'm not totally up on that.
Honda was fairly innovative when they had the two-carb setup on some of their 80's XR singles. One carb was like a primary in that it controlled idle to off idle and up fuel/air delivery, and the second carb kicked in as a secondary somewhere after the initial off idle throttle. It flowed better than the single carb setup, but it required some fiddling and attention to keep things optimum.
#7
I did see someone in his comments mention why you shouldn't do it with the stock 250. I'll try and find it.
Found it. Replay from el_juano
Found it. Replay from el_juano
Just FYI for your viewers who are contemplating removing their secondary throttle plates, (STP): if you have already gone big bore, by all means yank that thing and enjoy, but: if your bike is still a 250, the STP is NOT the evil, power sucking contraption some would like you to believe. In fact at stock displacement, you probably want it there.
The STP increases the intake tract velocity while the engine is in a low rpm condition allowing more, not less, air/fuel mixture to arrive in your cylinder before the intake valve closes and the computer moves it out of the way once the RPMs start to come up to balance **** out.
On a big bore, the physical volume of the cylinder is obviously larger causing a greater condition of vacuum while the valve is open so anything in the way will eat a little bit of initial umpf, but at stock size, unless you're adding a turbo, velocity is more important than lack of restriction just off idle.
If you are seriously mechanically inclined, and I'm talking to you machinists and fabricators, (not engineers, 😁 you can give the leading edge of the STP that moves in towards the engine and the trailing edge that moves out a slight break and polish to ever-so-slightly increase the intended effect, but honestly, you have a fun little putt-putt, not a arm socket dislocator so it's probably not worth the effort.
Experiment if you like, but that's the reason for the STP and the clean air ***** didn't do it this time.
The STP increases the intake tract velocity while the engine is in a low rpm condition allowing more, not less, air/fuel mixture to arrive in your cylinder before the intake valve closes and the computer moves it out of the way once the RPMs start to come up to balance **** out.
On a big bore, the physical volume of the cylinder is obviously larger causing a greater condition of vacuum while the valve is open so anything in the way will eat a little bit of initial umpf, but at stock size, unless you're adding a turbo, velocity is more important than lack of restriction just off idle.
If you are seriously mechanically inclined, and I'm talking to you machinists and fabricators, (not engineers, 😁 you can give the leading edge of the STP that moves in towards the engine and the trailing edge that moves out a slight break and polish to ever-so-slightly increase the intended effect, but honestly, you have a fun little putt-putt, not a arm socket dislocator so it's probably not worth the effort.
Experiment if you like, but that's the reason for the STP and the clean air ***** didn't do it this time.
#8
I absolutely agree with el_juano. As long as the programming for controlling the STP is correct (from a performance standpoint) it should be left to do its' job on a stockbore.. Even if the programming is causing "lazy opening", there is nothing we can do about it as there is not a flash tuner available (to tweak ECM settings) at this time. Even with a lazy response, its' benefit, most likely, overrules its' detriment.
Until a set of data (dyno data) proves otherwise, it should be left alone (on stockbores) IMO...
Until a set of data (dyno data) proves otherwise, it should be left alone (on stockbores) IMO...
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