2009 KLX250s EFI stalls at traffic lights
#41
04-22-2010, 07:25 PM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 54
I'm guessing Euro 3 must measure emissions at a different RPM to Thailand and US, or check for different gases. Whatever the case, it's not comparable and we are stuck with the Euro 3.
I reckon Thailand got our Euro 3 ECU by mistake. I suspect it's tuned within an inch of stalling just to get it to meet Euro 3.
It's not safe, but I bet the UK market for the KXL 250 is too small for them to worry about. If they get it to stop stalling they may end up having to impose an even more ridiculous RPM limit.
Doubt kwak will bite on the rev limiter issue as, I reckon they will just say 'you took it on a test ride right?'. The stalling, is an issue they need to address.
I can't think of any comparative single cylinder bikes designed for road use to compare it against.
I reckon Thailand got our Euro 3 ECU by mistake. I suspect it's tuned within an inch of stalling just to get it to meet Euro 3.
It's not safe, but I bet the UK market for the KXL 250 is too small for them to worry about. If they get it to stop stalling they may end up having to impose an even more ridiculous RPM limit.
Doubt kwak will bite on the rev limiter issue as, I reckon they will just say 'you took it on a test ride right?'. The stalling, is an issue they need to address.
I can't think of any comparative single cylinder bikes designed for road use to compare it against.
Here is a page from the Kawasaki KLX250s/v service manual... The Thailand bikes have the same ECU fitted as us here in the UK... So the ECU they got as a replacment to stop the cutting out will most probably still meet the euro 3 crap that ours have to meet as it will be a reprogram to stop it running so lean at tickover.
Ed.
#42
04-22-2010, 07:33 PM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 54
I have been pushing Kawasaki again about the recall in Thailand and here is what they said.
In the meantime we are unable to comment whether there may or may not have been a recall or modifications to the KLX250 in Thailand as we are not notified by our factory of situations which arise outside of the UK. It is not uncommon for a recall to occur in one country but not another as machine specifications can differ.
Attached to the email were two pages of general troubleshooting taken directly from the shop manual. Needless to say the stalling issue was not mentioned as a possible problem.
In the meantime we are unable to comment whether there may or may not have been a recall or modifications to the KLX250 in Thailand as we are not notified by our factory of situations which arise outside of the UK. It is not uncommon for a recall to occur in one country but not another as machine specifications can differ.
Attached to the email were two pages of general troubleshooting taken directly from the shop manual. Needless to say the stalling issue was not mentioned as a possible problem.
I was told that same crap about them not being able to comment on any other countrys recall, funny that, they use the same ECU part number for us in the UK & in Thailand..
If you PM me your email athelstan & anyone with a UK spec bike, I can email you the full 2009 KLX250 service manual, covers the FI on our bikes, hence how I found the wire to cut for the limiter.
Ed
Last edited by Big-Ed; 04-22-2010 at 07:46 PM.
#43
04-22-2010, 08:32 PM
Thanks all the same Ed, I've got the service manual, but with my knowledge of mechanics it may as well be in Chinese!
What we do need is to get all those with the stalling problems in the UK to flood Kawasaki with emails until they admit the problem, after all how difficult can it be for them to remap the ECU.
What we do need is to get all those with the stalling problems in the UK to flood Kawasaki with emails until they admit the problem, after all how difficult can it be for them to remap the ECU.
#44
04-23-2010, 03:36 AM
Your complaints should be about safety and whether they will assume any responsibility (liability) if the stalling makes you crash or get rear ended.
Here in the US we have had the idle mix screw capped to be tamper proof for years on street bikes. the dealer weren't supposed to mess with them, UNLESS, the customer complained in the context of the bike being "unsafe" to ride the way it was.
Here in the US we have had the idle mix screw capped to be tamper proof for years on street bikes. the dealer weren't supposed to mess with them, UNLESS, the customer complained in the context of the bike being "unsafe" to ride the way it was.
#45
04-23-2010, 09:52 AM
Just written to Kawasaki UK. If I get a reply I will post it here ...
I own a 2009 KLX 250 S and am writing to ask if there are any upgrades or recall issues relating to this bike, in particular related to the EFI or ECU.
My bike will stall randomly. It is not related to the weather temperature, or if it is wet or dry, or how warm the engine is.
I ride my bike every day, and it can run perfectly for a week or more, but then will stall as often as 6 times in one day, often in annoying and potentially dangerous situations in heavy traffic.
It can stall as I come to a stop, or just before I pull away. It can even stall while coasting in traffic as I change gear (normally between 2nd and 1st). If I am lucky I can quickly restart while rolling, but in traffic this is beginning to concern me.
I have also suffered from the engine pulsing between 1,500 and 3,000 rpm. The only cure seems to be to switch off and re-start which presumably resets everything.
My dealer tells me there is no known issue, but I find this hard to believe as I know other owners experience the same problems. And of course, the bike does not have problems while it is in the workshop!
My bike will stall randomly. It is not related to the weather temperature, or if it is wet or dry, or how warm the engine is.
I ride my bike every day, and it can run perfectly for a week or more, but then will stall as often as 6 times in one day, often in annoying and potentially dangerous situations in heavy traffic.
It can stall as I come to a stop, or just before I pull away. It can even stall while coasting in traffic as I change gear (normally between 2nd and 1st). If I am lucky I can quickly restart while rolling, but in traffic this is beginning to concern me.
I have also suffered from the engine pulsing between 1,500 and 3,000 rpm. The only cure seems to be to switch off and re-start which presumably resets everything.
My dealer tells me there is no known issue, but I find this hard to believe as I know other owners experience the same problems. And of course, the bike does not have problems while it is in the workshop!
#47
04-23-2010, 07:27 PM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 54
Agreed athelstan, uk nick, That is a great email to have sent to them, have sent similar messages to that at the start of my bikes troubles when I 1st got them & was told nothing was wrong, but now that there is at least 6 people all with the same problems.
I hate how the bike tries to cut out when you are coasting or coming to a stop, normally I just throw the clutch out to spin it up or it will just try to lock up the rear so start it on the button while still moving...
Never know, Kawasaki might just do something to help us all out, kinda doubt I will get the help as my bike is outta warranty by 6 months now, even if I have been complaining about my bike the day after I got it & was told by my dealer the cutting out was due to the engine being tight as it was new..
Ed.
I hate how the bike tries to cut out when you are coasting or coming to a stop, normally I just throw the clutch out to spin it up or it will just try to lock up the rear so start it on the button while still moving...
Never know, Kawasaki might just do something to help us all out, kinda doubt I will get the help as my bike is outta warranty by 6 months now, even if I have been complaining about my bike the day after I got it & was told by my dealer the cutting out was due to the engine being tight as it was new..
Ed.
#48
04-24-2010, 11:21 PM
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: KLX = Thailand; Me = Desert
Posts: 110
My understanding is that Thailand had upgraded their emission standards to Euro 3. One of the reasons why we have very limited big bikes to choose from here. I find it strange that KZ UK is acting like this particularly since the KLX is built in Thailand. KZ TH was very quick to respond to customer complaints which tells me that they had prior knowledge from other sources to some degree. I personally have not experienced any of this with my bike...maybe I am lucky. I do hope you all get it sorted out sooner than later...
#49
04-25-2010, 12:19 PM
Just a thought, but could this be a campaign that we could start in "Motor Cycle News". I'm sure that one of their budding journos would take up the case and at least we could attempt to find out how prevalent this problem is.
It could turn out to be a mini "Toyota".
It could turn out to be a mini "Toyota".
#50
04-29-2010, 02:58 PM
Yet another email to Kawasaki:-
Dear Mr. Chitty,
Thank you for the extracts from the shop manual. As expected there was no mention of stalling in the troubleshooting section.
Regarding your comments about model differences in other countries I should point out that the original Thailand ECU with the mapping problem is exactly the same ECU as fitted to UK bikes (part no. 21175-0167)
For your information, today the bike stalled on a very busy road just as I was turning right, how I avoided a nasty accident I really don't know.
I fully realise that it is Kawasaki policy to fob customers off with excuse after excuse hoping that they will eventually go away but I can assure you that this will not happen with me.
As I have stated before this stalling problem is erratic and the chances that it will occur during a dealer road test is very remote, so why cannot you accept that I, and many others with the same problem, are not liars and it is a very real and potentially very dangerous situation. Are Kawasaki waiting for the first fatality before they recognise this problem?
As I see it I have three courses of action, 1. Try to purchase a replacement ECU with the correct mapping from Thailand, but then why should I pay all this extra when the bike should have been fit for purpose in the first place.2. Approach the motorcycle press to see if they can put on any pressure or 3. See my solicitor.
Dear Mr. Chitty,
Thank you for the extracts from the shop manual. As expected there was no mention of stalling in the troubleshooting section.
Regarding your comments about model differences in other countries I should point out that the original Thailand ECU with the mapping problem is exactly the same ECU as fitted to UK bikes (part no. 21175-0167)
For your information, today the bike stalled on a very busy road just as I was turning right, how I avoided a nasty accident I really don't know.
I fully realise that it is Kawasaki policy to fob customers off with excuse after excuse hoping that they will eventually go away but I can assure you that this will not happen with me.
As I have stated before this stalling problem is erratic and the chances that it will occur during a dealer road test is very remote, so why cannot you accept that I, and many others with the same problem, are not liars and it is a very real and potentially very dangerous situation. Are Kawasaki waiting for the first fatality before they recognise this problem?
As I see it I have three courses of action, 1. Try to purchase a replacement ECU with the correct mapping from Thailand, but then why should I pay all this extra when the bike should have been fit for purpose in the first place.2. Approach the motorcycle press to see if they can put on any pressure or 3. See my solicitor.