09 klx 250 shifting problem
#21
Some of us have been lucky, as the pin was just sitting in the bottom of the shift mechanism cavity. It may be hidden behind some of the other gear change mechanism parts. Also be sure that it didn't fall out when you pulled the cover - mine almost did.
There was one other member (can't remember who off the top of my head) who had the same problem you do...he ended up fishing with a magnet, and pulling out nothing but shavings (that were presumably the remains of the pin). No idea what it may have done to any internal transmission parts - but I don't recall seeing him post any problems with it since.
Depending on what you find - a whole pin or shavings - you may want to perform some sort of internal flush or even go deeper into the motor. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. For now, keep fishing.
#25
When you do get the part, please make note of which design it is.
'06/'07 on the left, '09 on the right. Kawasaki uses the same part number for both.
'06/'07 on the left, '09 on the right. Kawasaki uses the same part number for both.
Last edited by Lutz; 06-20-2011 at 07:13 PM.
#28
I don't know - there isn't any obvious reason.
The profile change could be to
- improve shifting, or
- ease manufacturing by powdered metal rather than casting.
The counterbore that cuts into the pins? Who knows?
All the text below I already posted over at advrider, with one comment from TNC. I just copied and pasted here to make it easy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For reference, on the left is the good design ('06/'07 and apparently current replacement parts) and on the right is the bad design ('09). It's the counter bore in the center of the '09 star that cuts into the inner edge of the pins that makes this design weak. Also, at least for the U.S. model bikes, there is absolutely no purpose for that counterbore. In hindsight, if I hadn't already broken and replaced the shift star in my 2009 bike (with the 'old' style part), I'd source one of the good ones and replace it preemptively. If I had a '10 or newer bike, I'd pull the cover to see which design I have.
I'll add that the shift quality from my bike may have been better with the '09 profile. But take that with a grain of salt, as I didn't have any sort of back to back comparison. It would certainly be possible to modify the '06/'07 profile to match the '09 profile, while taking advantage of the stronger '06/'07 design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC
Lutz, thanks for that pic...explains a lot. I wonder if Kaw designed it that way on purpose?...that is to actually break easier rather than an internal transmission fracture? I'm just speculating.
I don't know, but I doubt they did it on purpose. If that were the case, they could have installed a shear pin on the backside rather than a dowel pin - that way still no broken internals, but also no shrapnel to potentially get into the transmission and cause other problems.
My gut feeling is that this has something to do with the fuel injected bikes overseas. But that is just a hunch. There are a couple other subtle differences in the designs, but no functional difference - at least for t he US bikes.
Here's another pic of the backside of the stars: 'good' one on the left, 'bad' one on the right. Some additional observations:
1. The good one appears to be a cast piece, the bad one appears to be powdered metal (PM). This shouldn't have any significant effect on strength - just worth noting.
2. The bad one had a keyway along the inside diameter, but also was machined for the same pin that the good design uses for locating the neutral position indicator (you can see part of that pin exposed in the picture of the bad part).
3. The bad one has a slot rather than just a hole for the dowel pin that locates it against the shift drum.
4. Both parts are functionally identical and completely interchangable, at least in the U.S. bikes. Nothing else needs to change to swap between the two designs.
5. I should add that Kawasaki uses the same part number for both designs; that is, they didn't change the part number with the change in design (I suppose there was no need to since they interchange).
Regarding the observation above, I'm a bit perplexed by this. If that big counterbore serves some functional purpose on non-US models, then it should not share a part number with the non-bored parts - as the two designs would not really be interchangeable.
From the design of the PM part, it is apparent that there is or was some intention of using the part differently - specifially the keyway along the ID of the part.
Could be that the same raw part is used to make the finished part for multiple models - only with slightly different machining required to get to a specific part number.
Could be that the engineers intended to put that counterbore but failed to recognize the ill effects it would cause.
Could be that there was a large batch of improperly manufactured but still useable PM parts - rather than being thrown out, they may have been made to work. Remember, we're talking about a low-margin, high volume bike here; manufacturers care about fractions of pennies lost, they freak out about several dollars. Along these lines, I'm very interested in what has come stock in the '10 and newer bikes, or whether any of the '09 models came without that questionable counterbore.
Could be something else entirely. The world may never know. Any thoughts?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The profile change could be to
- improve shifting, or
- ease manufacturing by powdered metal rather than casting.
The counterbore that cuts into the pins? Who knows?
All the text below I already posted over at advrider, with one comment from TNC. I just copied and pasted here to make it easy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For reference, on the left is the good design ('06/'07 and apparently current replacement parts) and on the right is the bad design ('09). It's the counter bore in the center of the '09 star that cuts into the inner edge of the pins that makes this design weak. Also, at least for the U.S. model bikes, there is absolutely no purpose for that counterbore. In hindsight, if I hadn't already broken and replaced the shift star in my 2009 bike (with the 'old' style part), I'd source one of the good ones and replace it preemptively. If I had a '10 or newer bike, I'd pull the cover to see which design I have.
I'll add that the shift quality from my bike may have been better with the '09 profile. But take that with a grain of salt, as I didn't have any sort of back to back comparison. It would certainly be possible to modify the '06/'07 profile to match the '09 profile, while taking advantage of the stronger '06/'07 design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNC
Lutz, thanks for that pic...explains a lot. I wonder if Kaw designed it that way on purpose?...that is to actually break easier rather than an internal transmission fracture? I'm just speculating.
I don't know, but I doubt they did it on purpose. If that were the case, they could have installed a shear pin on the backside rather than a dowel pin - that way still no broken internals, but also no shrapnel to potentially get into the transmission and cause other problems.
My gut feeling is that this has something to do with the fuel injected bikes overseas. But that is just a hunch. There are a couple other subtle differences in the designs, but no functional difference - at least for t he US bikes.
Here's another pic of the backside of the stars: 'good' one on the left, 'bad' one on the right. Some additional observations:
1. The good one appears to be a cast piece, the bad one appears to be powdered metal (PM). This shouldn't have any significant effect on strength - just worth noting.
2. The bad one had a keyway along the inside diameter, but also was machined for the same pin that the good design uses for locating the neutral position indicator (you can see part of that pin exposed in the picture of the bad part).
3. The bad one has a slot rather than just a hole for the dowel pin that locates it against the shift drum.
4. Both parts are functionally identical and completely interchangable, at least in the U.S. bikes. Nothing else needs to change to swap between the two designs.
5. I should add that Kawasaki uses the same part number for both designs; that is, they didn't change the part number with the change in design (I suppose there was no need to since they interchange).
Regarding the observation above, I'm a bit perplexed by this. If that big counterbore serves some functional purpose on non-US models, then it should not share a part number with the non-bored parts - as the two designs would not really be interchangeable.
From the design of the PM part, it is apparent that there is or was some intention of using the part differently - specifially the keyway along the ID of the part.
Could be that the same raw part is used to make the finished part for multiple models - only with slightly different machining required to get to a specific part number.
Could be that the engineers intended to put that counterbore but failed to recognize the ill effects it would cause.
Could be that there was a large batch of improperly manufactured but still useable PM parts - rather than being thrown out, they may have been made to work. Remember, we're talking about a low-margin, high volume bike here; manufacturers care about fractions of pennies lost, they freak out about several dollars. Along these lines, I'm very interested in what has come stock in the '10 and newer bikes, or whether any of the '09 models came without that questionable counterbore.
Could be something else entirely. The world may never know. Any thoughts?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#29
shift pawl?
i had the same thing happen to my klx luckily my warrenty wasn't up yet so i made the dealership deal with it it was one of the pegs on the shift drum or pawl the guy at the kawi shop called it a pawl but what ever you wanna call it he said i most likely bumped the shifter too hard but that is mostlikely your problem
#30
i had the same thing happen to my klx luckily my warrenty wasn't up yet so i made the dealership deal with it it was one of the pegs on the shift drum or pawl the guy at the kawi shop called it a pawl but what ever you wanna call it he said i most likely bumped the shifter too hard but that is mostlikely your problem
Anyway, is your bike an '09 as well? Did it break from some kind of impact - crash, rock contact, or something along those lines?
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