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flyboy110b 03-01-2006 04:20 AM

sputters, but barely runs.
 
So i took everyone's advice and cleaned my carbs again.. i know for a damn fact that the jets are clean as a whistle.. The fist time i forgot to clean out the float valves, but i blew all the crap out of those too.. I restset the floats too to let in more gas.. I have them set to that the middle of the floats are flush with the top of the gas bowl.. before they would shut off and even hit the bottom of the little spring on the valve before the floats would go all the way up.. As for the pilot air screw: They can only be turned 13 rotations in, and they were set to ten, so i set them all that way..

So i put it all beack together today.. And it actually started..kind of.. I had it idling around 1k rpms for a minuet, but i shut it off because i didn't have coolant in it.. I have it a little gas to see if it would rev, it didn't pass 3k.. Some people told me it may not run well when cold.. So i put some water in it.. Now the damn thing sputters when i try to start it.. starts with starting fluid, but i can't run off of that. choke doesn't do any good either.. I know the battery is kind of crappy, its been drained before, but its the only one i have, so i'm recharging it..
anyone have any ideas?

Gotten be running lean, huh? does the pilot screw, when turned clockwise to shut the vavle.. does the shut off air or fuel.
all my manual tells to me to is take it to the damn dealer

BigRig18Wheeler 03-01-2006 08:46 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
It just sounds like you are starving for fuel.. but why? It's like they say, if it's got $#@&& or wheels, you're going to have a prob with it.:D My wife's staring over my shoulder, so I had to put that in there:D I don't know. You have a fuel tank, it go to the fuel filter, to the carbs, air/fuel mix to the engine. vvrroooommm. Maybe the vent is blocked and it is vacuum locked??? have you tried running it with the gas cap open? Are all the gas lines free of bugs, dirt, etc. You can blow through lines with no restriction? I bought a used bike that had been sitting awhile, and there were bugs stuck in the bottom of the fuel tank. Is the fuel petcock functioning properly. Sometimes the rubber gasket inside the petcock gets fubar'ed and could cause a fuel starvtion prob. it sounds like you are pretty sure about carbs, so eliminate all the rest of the fuel system. I bet somebody on here has had the same prob and might be able to help a little better... The bad thing, it's probably something simple...;)

BigRig18Wheeler 03-01-2006 09:00 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
I just read your previous post. It sounds like, with the rust prob you've got: new lines, filter,carb kits, tank cleaned and dipped, new petcock, etc. Replace your vacuum lines, rubber hoses. I think Dragone said about this same thing on last post. I'm kinda curious as to how far you are going to get on this thing. Let us know....

flyboy110b 03-01-2006 07:15 PM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
I'm not sure what the deal is. I know my fuel filter isn't great, but its pretty clear and it flows. The fuel line after the filter and to the carbs is band-new. I gotta couple feelt of tubing just in case. I could blow through the line with no gas in it. Thats how i was priming the carbs with gas too, just to make sure, but i the flow stopped i think because the float bowls are full. I did take the fuel tap apart before.. It really was gunked up, but i got it out of there. When i press the little button on it, it drains, and stops when i let it go. I assume the other hole on it is a vaccum to open it when running? I think there's supposed to be a filter on top of that too, but there isn't one. I washed the tank out with water the first day i got it and let it dry out.. I'm not really sure how dirty it really is in there, i don't hear any debries.

Dragone#19 03-02-2006 02:20 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Are we even sure that the fuel pump is pushing fuel?

flyboy110b 03-02-2006 07:29 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
fuel pump? there is no fuel pump on this.. its not fuel injected.
so i finally go the damn thing started. it would ilde around 1.5k rpms, and it would die if i have it gas. It would ilde smoother at about 2k rpms with the choke, and i could only rev the engine to about 5k rpms before it would bog down and die unless i released the throttle and choke.. I let it idle for about 10 minutes to let it warm up a little, but that didn't have much affect. So i took the carbs apart again! but at least now I'm getting the hang of it. main jets are clear.. pilot jet holes are smaller than a sewing needle, but the hole is clear, i can see and blow through them. i adjusted the floats. the pilot screws are about 2.5 turns from all the way in..
Put it all back together again, and it starts fine.. but throttle still kills it..

BigRig18Wheeler 03-02-2006 08:32 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
At least it's better than what it was. It seems like everytime you mess with it, she gets better. Not enough fuel? too much air?? Is there an accelerator pump on the carbs? you got me. If I reached that point, I would grab a 6 pack, I mean a 12 pack of Corona, call a couple of friends, and get a different perspective on it. There is nothing worse than frustration!!

Good luck, man...

flyboy110b 03-02-2006 11:32 PM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
ha! ya, its too bad my friends don't know crap about mechanics.
okay, here's the real deal. I'm running it without the airbox right now.. It turns out, there's not enough fuel pressure in the high rpm area. When i blow on the fuel line when its running, I can rev and it sounds fine! but i KNOW that the main jets, the air thingy its on, the needle, and needle jets are all clean. what's the deal?

Notstock 03-03-2006 03:15 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 


ORIGINAL: flyboy110b

fuel pump? there is no fuel pump on this.. its not fuel injected.
so i finally go the damn thing started. it would ilde around 1.5k rpms, and it would die if i have it gas. It would ilde smoother at about 2k rpms with the choke, and i could only rev the engine to about 5k rpms before it would bog down and die unless i released the throttle and choke.. I let it idle for about 10 minutes to let it warm up a little, but that didn't have much affect. So i took the carbs apart again! but at least now I'm getting the hang of it. main jets are clear.. pilot jet holes are smaller than a sewing needle, but the hole is clear, i can see and blow through them. i adjusted the floats. the pilot screws are about 2.5 turns from all the way in..
Put it all back together again, and it starts fine.. but throttle still kills it..

I have 2 carbureted bikes and they both have fuel pumps.

I know I may be backing up here but your pilot jets, can you see through them? Not just the rows of holes near the bottom of them but actually through one end to the other. Can you run a wire through them?

Mains do not kick in until higher rpms, so I keep thinking your pilot jets which are for idle and low rpm. Also af mixture turn them in all the way clockwise and then turn them out 2 turns. Make adjustments from there ½ turn at a time. I would try more out before I went in.

flyboy110b 03-03-2006 07:15 PM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
No fuel pump on this one.. its gravity fed. About the pilot jets. The opening hole is the smallest i've ever seen.No where near the size of the main jet. Its only the size of a pin head, BUT i can see through it, and I can blow through it.. I don't know what rpm range is it supposed to work for, but it work up two about 3k. But when i blew on the fuel line to give it a little more pressure (too much would kill it) it runs fine. i don't really know about it,so I've got the carbs off and in my car. I'm gonna take it to the dealership and see what they think.. too bad i don't have the money to pay them to work on it.

Notstock 03-04-2006 01:29 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 


ORIGINAL: flyboy110b

No fuel pump on this one.. its gravity fed. About the pilot jets. The opening hole is the smallest i've ever seen.No where near the size of the main jet. Its only the size of a pin head, BUT i can see through it, and I can blow through it.. I don't know what rpm range is it supposed to work for, but it work up two about 3k. But when i blew on the fuel line to give it a little more pressure (too much would kill it) it runs fine. i don't really know about it,so I've got the carbs off and in my car. I'm gonna take it to the dealership and see what they think.. too bad i don't have the money to pay them to work on it.
Did you try the af screws?
Let us know what the dealer tells you and good luck.

flyboy110b 03-04-2006 03:15 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Af screws? dont know what that it.
So i took my whole carb assembly to the dealership to get some advice. Jets are clean. Two of the needles were a little scuffed-up to i did my best on them with a wire-wheele. diaphrams are all good.. Before, one wasn't going up very well. Did one last cleaning of the carbs. I put it back on the bix without the airbox to i could adjust the pilot screw.. This is only for idle, right? anyways, 2.5 turns out was okay, 3 it would bog down, so they're set 2 turns out. After i let it warm up, it could rev it up to 8k +. So i put the airbox back on.

Now it was time for my first test drive. i put it in gear, at least what i thought was 1st, may have been 2nd, i'm still getting used to it. Its a little hard to get it in and out of gear. So i coast down my driveway and into the street. I live on a big hill, so i went up just in case something happened so i could coast bask home. It didn't do too well. There wasn't a whole lot of power. In fact, about 4k rpms or lower wouldn't get me up the street. I coast back home, turn around and try it again. This time with a little more success, i got all the way up the street staying around 5k. That was fast enough, because i live on a one-way street, which is has a hill on one side and a drop off with lots of oaks on the other. Towards the top, it was bogging down again. so I stopped and tried reving it a little.
It would either kind of sputter and gain hardly any rpm, or it would die.

now I'm back at home. There's less than a gallon of gas in the tank. That could be it. I know there's supposed to be a filter and a hose or two i think on top of the fuel tap inside the tank.. but its not there.. so that could be it..
anyone has some suggestions..

hey, if anything, i got it up the street and back.

Notstock 03-04-2006 04:09 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
AF screws- Air Fuel Mixture. You have them at 2.5 have you tried to turn the in more to say 2 or even 1.5.

Your gears are down 1 for 1st and then all up. Just through that in because you sounded a little unclear.

What is the model and year of your bike please?
What mods does it have? Not sure if you posted it earlier I did not check, but post it again please.

Did the dealer do anything to your carbs or tell you where the af screws should be?

flyboy110b 03-04-2006 05:16 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Oh, air/fuel... okay, those are the ones under, on the engine side right. I guess i can try and adjust them some more.. the thing is, i don't have a screwdriver to fit it with the carbs still on the bike. before i was adjusting them with the air box off, and the carbs just placed on the inlets.. i have to find the right tool.

so the gears.. all the way down is 1st, and the rest up? i used to have an old yz, its nothing like this.. i'm a noobie for sportbikes.
the Bike is a 1990 zx750 F4.. its not a ZX-R, no R... and everything on it is stock.

Notstock 03-04-2006 06:05 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Okay got the model and will do a little research.

As for as the air/fuel mixture screws go if everything on the bike os stock and the carbs have not been rejeted they are not accessible with out drilling out a brass cap and are located near the bottom of the float covers. If you can see the four screws than they have already been drilled out. If not they should appear as if there is a brass plug covering them.

You described this: "air/fuel... okay, those are the ones under, on the engine side right." Can you take a picture of what you have been adjusting?

There are 3 screws between the crabs with springs on them, 1 between each carb. Have you turned these at all? They are the synchronization screws and if they have been adjusted a lot it will affect the bike. You need special gauge to properly sync the carbs. The shop should do it for about 45.00.

You are correct about the fuel pump I did not see one listed on the parts list.

The gears are 1 down and 5 up. Neutral is between 1st and 2nd.

What did the dealer tell you about the carbs?

Dragone#19 03-04-2006 06:30 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Sorry about the fuel pump question. My '90 ZX-7 H2 has one. My a/f plugs were tin and not brass though.

flyboy110b 03-04-2006 08:35 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Yeah, the covers on the pilot screws were already off. I'll get a picture up asap.. its just i have a crappy internet connection.
I've done my best to tune the carbs by myself.. set all the pilot screws to the same number of roataions. as for synching them,
I eyeballed it.. the vaccum hole inside the carbs make a good reference points.. though, when i can get it running well enough to
drive t the dealership, i will have that done.
Thanks for the info about the tranny. I was way off!

here's a quesion for you guys: I've heard that if you let a motorcycle batter die, its pretty much dead for life.. that it can't hold a charge.
is this true? because my batter was dead long before i got the bike. and i've charged it up and drained it twice just trying to get the thing started before.

Notstock 03-04-2006 06:00 PM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
age will kill the batt, I have recharged mine a number of times. If you were in the wrong gear, it may explain why you could not get the bike to run up hill very well.


**Spelling Edit**[&o]

BigRig18Wheeler 03-04-2006 09:12 PM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Right on, dude. From when you first started, you made a lot of progress so far!! Keep it goin' See, that Corona helped, huh!!!

Notstock 03-05-2006 12:40 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 


ORIGINAL: BigRig18Wheeler

Right on, dude. From when you first started, you made a lot of progress so far!! Keep it goin' See, that Corona helped, huh!!!
Like this?

[IMG]local://upfiles/346/8AFF4965716E4FA2B4E55C3101E8DAAD.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]local://upfiles/346/673DA4AD4D9F40E3B7AAC610AA1AD373.jpg[/IMG]

BigRig18Wheeler 03-05-2006 06:36 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Ha Ha Ha !!! That's Awesome.... I had to go try it!!

Dragone#19 03-05-2006 07:20 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Yep, corona will kill it for sure. lmao, especially given that way.

BigRig18Wheeler 03-05-2006 07:28 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Ha HA Ha!! LMAO!! You're right.. don't do it. I tried it. Test drove it. It took me to a mexican food restaurant. I knew it was a real mexican food place, because when I sat down, the waiter brought me a glass of water, and then told me not to drink it!!! j/k......:D

flyboy110b 03-05-2006 10:01 PM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
so i start the bike up yesterday for a moment.. and it made a squealing noise.. so i shut it off.
now the thing wont even turn over.. its got enough power for all the lights and whatnot..
i put the battery on the charger too see if that helps.. i wish my multi-meter still worked!

Notstock 03-06-2006 12:18 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
On mine I put it on charge for about 5 mins hooked up to the bike and then it starts.

flyboy110b 03-06-2006 03:54 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
weird... i let it charge and it still didn't turn over.. so i took off the valve cover to make sure nothing was broken.
then i turned the crankshaft over a few times by hand.. the engine rotates well enough. i hooked up the battery again and tried startin it, and now it turns.. i still have some stuff off, so i didn't start it up... i'm not sure what the deal was with that..

BigRig18Wheeler 03-06-2006 08:42 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Maybe you have a "dead" spot on the starter or fly. If it does it again, keep her in gear and rock her back and forth a little bit. Have you tried to drive the bike again?

Also, with it running, you might add some BG or some Berryman fuel system treatment to the tank to clean off those valves and internal parts you might have missed during cleaning... I add about 25% of the bottle of Berrymans to mine every 3rd tank or so, just to keep her clean. JMO tho'

flyboy110b 03-06-2006 07:03 PM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
yeah, i've been told to use fuel treatment in the tank to keep it all nice and clean.. I haven't tried dricing it again yet. I need to put back the vaccum valve and the ignition coils. The tires on it are pretty worn too, but i'm going to put that stuff back on and try again later today, as long as the weather doesn't turn all crappy.

Dragone#19 03-07-2006 05:14 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
I am curious on that "squealing". But a low voltage will cause popping and low revs also. I agree get your volt meter fixed. Curious to see if the alternator is working correctly.

flyboy110b 03-08-2006 03:12 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
ok.. well, i tried going for another ride today, and yet again it has power problems..
guess what? It also leaks oil and a good rate, right out on the exhaust!! I haven't pinpointed
exactly where it's leaking from, but obviously one of the gasgets are bad.. lets assume that it
is not the head gasket.. would lower than normal oil pressure cause it to run like crap?

its too bad it didn't have enough power to pull me back up the hill.. even with it leaking oil,
i didn't have a choice but to hop off the bike and run with it with the clutch half out.

now comes the time to take off all of the front fairings and radiator... fun...

Notstock 03-08-2006 05:52 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Dam oil out the exhaust [&o] Could be time for a total tear down and rebuild.

Would be one hell of a DIY post.


flyboy110b 03-08-2006 06:01 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
no no, not out of the exhaust.. it leaks from the exhaust side of the engine, down onto the exhaust pipes.. the oil burns up in them and smokes.. I'll tear down the front half of the bike tomorrow.. I'll be sure to get some pictures up too

BigRig18Wheeler 03-08-2006 06:37 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
I am sure you all ready checked, but the oil filter and drain plug are both tight???

MaverickAus 03-08-2006 10:38 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Going back to your problems with the bike not running right, it sounds to me like its running lean. A mate of mine was working on his bike and stuffed a rag in the air box to prevent nasties falling in, put the bike all back togeather and it would run with the choke on ( I mean low revs but when you went to ride it, it just bogged down and stopped). We pulled the seat off and voila pulled the rag out and away she went. I'm just using that as an example, is there anything perhaps blocking your air intake?
The other thing that comes to mind is a lack of fuel, sounds a bit like the float bowls get full but then cut off, so you have enough fuel to get going but then when it uses all the fuel in the float bowls naturally the engine leans and dies. Perhaps a vacumn problems (fuel tap) or maybe just not enough fuel in the tank?
Good luck with it
Garry

flyboy110b 03-08-2006 07:12 PM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
I'm looking at a diagram on my engine, trying to figure out where the oil is comming from.. I don't know yet for sure, but my best guess is the Cylinder Base gasket.. real cheap part, pain in the ass to get too.. if that's the problem, i'm going to just change the base and head gaskets and do a valve lash adjustment. while i got it off, i can double check the pilot screws on the carbs..
anyone know how often the timing chain needs to be replaced, because i don't have to have to do this again for quite a long time..

BigRig18Wheeler 03-14-2006 04:34 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Hey fly, how are you coming on thing?? Did you find the oil leak?

Notstock 03-14-2006 04:36 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 


ORIGINAL: flyboy110b

I'm looking at a diagram on my engine, trying to figure out where the oil is comming from.. I don't know yet for sure, but my best guess is the Cylinder Base gasket.. real cheap part, pain in the ass to get too.. if that's the problem, i'm going to just change the base and head gaskets and do a valve lash adjustment. while i got it off, i can double check the pilot screws on the carbs..
anyone know how often the timing chain needs to be replaced, because i don't have to have to do this again for quite a long time..
Sh*t if your doing all the above you should do the chain and the chain tensioner.

flyboy110b 03-15-2006 06:57 PM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
for some reason i always assume the worst if i really don't know the extent of a problem..
the oil is leaking from the clutch push rod seal, and the gear change rod seal.. I'm going to get new ones in about an hour
or so.. gotta put those on and put in a new oil filter and fill it up again with oil.. the damn thing still only runs for about five minuets.
the last time i took off the fuel take, i noticed the the line was kind of dry, so my fuel tap must be crap.. too bad the damn thing costs about $70, which i do not have right now..

BigRig18Wheeler 03-16-2006 08:58 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Simple enough on the seals. The fuel would explain your problem. Slowly but surely....a l m o s t there!!

BigRig18Wheeler 03-19-2006 06:52 AM

RE: sputters, but barely runs.
 
Hey flyboy, have you made any more progress on that bike yet? Did you get those seals changed out? I am curious to how you are coming along..


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