Hi all,

I'm brand new to motorcycles (and not much of a mechanic which is part of my learning process here), so my apologies in advance for any stupid questions or lack of understanding!

I'm hoping for some direction on where to look for info or what may be the issue so i can start fixing...

I just purchased a 1984 KZ550 on Saturday. It was driven to me by the previous owner and I was able to start it myself with no problem. I put it in the garage and pulled it back out Sunday, and it won't turn over...Same thing Monday.

The previous owner had told me that the carburetor may need cleaned and rebuilt, because it started hard, but again it was starting fine. I've also noticed the key will come out of the ignition with the bike on, I'm not sure if that is an issue?

The lights come on, the signals work, so I don't *think* it's a battery issue.

Obviously I'm a bit put off by this development

Any thoughts are appreciated! Thank you.

 

Sounds like you might have a bad key-switch, bad ground, or questionable battery. Does it make a "click" like a bad ground when you turn on the key and hit the starter, or just simply do nothing? Do the lights go flat when you hit the starter button? Might try jumping the battery (not recommended for more than a quick test or if the bike still doesn't turn over.) Sometimes a battery has enough juice to light lights, but not enough to crank a starter. Check all battery wiring. The key coming out of the switch could be a sign of bad contacts, and thus, no juice to the starter. Check all of the kill switch contacts, too: handlebar, sidestand, etc. You can always push it and drop the clutch (key on) and see if it will bump start. If you get it going, use a meter to see if you're getting good mojo from the alternator.
That's where I'd start, anyway. First the bad news: Older bikes present challenges the newer ones don't. Crusty wiring, corrosion, hack jobs by morons, and usually worn out alternators, starters, and electrical gremlins galore. They can be VERY frustrating to new riders. The good news is, older bikes are alot of fun to ride if they're kept in historical context. They're much more simple to work on, and a GREAT place to learn basic repair chops. If you plan to do much of your own work, take the time to get some decent quality tools; the basics, like screwdrivers, wrenches, sockets, pliers, and start putting your kit together.
Welcome to the forums. Glad to have you aboard. Try the above, see if anything works. Keep us posted. If it was running on Saturday, it's probably something simple.

 

Also make sure the kill switch is in the run position, tripped me up a time or two...

Welcome to KF!

 

Hi Jeff and Prom,

Thanks for your quick responses! I will look into them.

To answer questions:

-When I turn the key and hit the starter, the engine gives off a kind of "eeeerrrr" squeal like it's trying to do something but just isn't turning. I tried the choke but it didn't help.

-The kill switch is in the run position I believe. This bike seems to have the kill switch as part of the start button; left or right for kill, center for start.

And Jeff, the fact that it should be relatively easy to work on is one reason I was looking at older bikes, and the other was simply price...I don't want to cause damage to a new $4k bike and feel terrible about it haha. Anyway, hopefully you're right and it is simple.

 

If the starter is activating but isnt turning its probably your battery, make sure its charged and check all your connections. If it still doesnt work you may need a new one.

 

Thanks Prom. I bought an electric charger today only to realize that my garage's only outlet is for the door....which means I need to go get a stepstool tomorrow. I've heard that you can charge from a car battery if the car battery is *not* on; any truth to that before I blow something out?

Updates:

-Newbie moment where I realized the fuel valve was in Res instead of On. It didn't fix the problem, but another learning experience! What should this be left on while the bike is off?

-Headlight and panel lights do not fade when the key is turned, at least not noticably after several minutes. Neutral light stays on, gas and oil come on at first and then fade, although I'm under the impression that is correct?

-I'm not noticing the lights going flatter when pressing the ignition, although I could be mistaken.

-I saw 3 sets of wirings for the battery, 1 on the left terminal with 4 (i think) prongs, 2 on the right: one with 4 prongs that appeared to be going to some part of the engine and one with 2 prongs that appeared to be the ground. They were all as tight as I can get them.

-The engine is definitely trying to rev, it's just not going anywhere.

-I cannot tell if the engine is getting gas. I only see 1 hose coming from the tank area that even strikes me as possibly clear, and I can't tell if it's grey or dirty. Either way, I don't see a change when I hit the ignition, and that does concern me. But gas isn't splashing out either.

Thank you again for the help and putting up with someone as knowledge-less as myself. I'm going to get a repair manual, and someday maybe I can return the favor by helping another first-timer.

 

Ok, so the engine is turning over. That is a good sign.

The closest manual I have is the 85 gpz 500. But make sure that you clean the fuel tap screen that is built in if you are not getting any fuel. There is probably 2 lines from the tank. A breather hose and an overflow most likely. So if the engine is turning over, verify you have fuel and spark.

Good luck. we are curious on what you find out.

 

Hm, yeah, seems my terminology is off. I think of turning over as involving the engine actually catching and starting to run. Maybe I've been taking this the wrong direction.

How would you recommend checking for fuel if there is a spark?

My understanding for checking for spark is to remove a spark plug (only need to try 1?), make sure the wire is still attached, ground it against something like the body of the bike, and then try to start the engine. Is this correct? What safety precautions should I take for this (e.g. heavy gloves)? Am I supposed to be holding the spark plug or just lay it against the ground, or...?

 

Pull the spark plug, and lay it on the top of the engine. You don't need to hold onto it. (Much easier to see if you're in a garage rather than outside in daylight.) Turn key. Hit starter button a few times. Watch for spark.
Always remember the 3 Amigos; Air, Fuel, Spark.
As for fuel, what do the plugs look like? What color is the deposit at the electrode? Black, brown, beige? Are the plugs wet after you try to start the bike? Tried new plugs yet? Checked to make sure they're the correct plugs? I would guess they're (at least) close to being correct if the bike was running last weekend. That squeal you described is a bit curious. Is it a mechanical "OMFG something's binding" sort of squeal (I envision a seized piston), or is it a starter-solenoid type of electrical sound? If nothing (in the engine case) moves and you hear a squeal when you hit the starter; STOP!!! However, if the engine makes a similar or same sound as it did when it was running last weekend, it may be OK.
If you have spark (after doing the above,) then it's possibly fuel. Does fuel run out of the line from the tank when you turn on the petcock? (Or, is there some cutesy vacuum diaphragm like the old H series triples??) When in doubt, pull the spark plugs, put an eyedropper amount of gas in each cylinder, replace plugs, hit starter button. (You can also spray a dab of starter fluid into the carb or airbox, but that stuff is not kind to cylinder rings and walls.) You are using FRESH gas, right? Does the crankcase have oil in it? Sometimes older bikes with split cases will seep oil when the engine isn't used. If you go starting the bike without oil, see "squeal description #1."
The more details you provide (and you're doing very good!) the more we can narrow down the problem. Hang in there.

 

-The noise I'm hearing isn't a metal-on-metal sound. It reminds me of trying to start a car with no gas (bike definitely has gas).

-Tried the right-right plug. I got one spark in about 4 tries to start. That doesn't seem right? I only tried the one since I struggled with spark. The electrode was black, the metal beneath it was kind of a dull grey metal I think.

-After putting the plug back in, I put the wire back on it, and I must have taken it too far for the wire because it came off the bike in my hand! Rubber and all. Um....I don't know what this is supposed to look like but it was just a rubber tube with copper wiring in it cut at a very slight angle. I put the tubing back in where I think it came from, a tube area underneath the gas tank, although I'm not sure if it's in all the way.

-I noticed that when pushing the starter, the headlight and panel lights did in fact dim and seemed a little flat. Releasing the starter brought them back to normal.

That's what I have so far.

I won't be able to take this farther than spark plugs and battery for now probably, since thanks to me and the seller both being idiots, the transfer got signed without a notary. Still trying to find one that fits our schedules and is willing to let us sign a 2nd time in their presence (I checked with the clerk of courts office and they told me a notary will usually do this...I hope they're right or this is going to be a pain!) But if we suspect something, I'm willing to start looking into parts, I just don't want to tear it down until I have the title in my name.

If I bring the battery inside and put it on some aluminum foil or something, will I be able to charge it safely? The charger I bought unfortunately plugs into an outlet, my garage's only outlet is on the ceiling, and the person who shares the garage parks so far over there isn't even room to get a stepladder there without damaging his car...