Help! Clickity Clack coming from the Clutch Region
#1
07-14-2007, 11:35 PM
Help! Clickity Clack coming from the Clutch Region
First time posting here!
My brother has an '88 Ninja 500. Ever since he got it it's been making a slight rattle type noise from the crank case around the clutch. It's not a constant noise, more random. Noticable when idleing. Sounds like there's a bolt being kicked around in there, only much quieter.
My thoughts were clutch disks, or a loose primary chain. It was not very loud, just barely noticable.
We had a motorcycle mechanic listen to it, and he seemed to think it was no big deal. He suggested putting a heavier weight oil in it.
We just put some motorcycle 20w50 in there, and now the noise is MUCH more amplified. It's also a bit more constant, although not perfectly constant. Deffinately sounds like metal on metal in the cluch area.
When idleing in nuetral, If you pull the clutch in, the noise will go away for a second, and then come back (while still holding the clutch).
Oil is full. Clutch is adjusted properly and works fine.
Is there a primary chain tensioner on this thing? What else should we look at or do? Any help is appriciated, as we have a 2-3 thousand mile ride planned for next month.
Thanks!
My brother has an '88 Ninja 500. Ever since he got it it's been making a slight rattle type noise from the crank case around the clutch. It's not a constant noise, more random. Noticable when idleing. Sounds like there's a bolt being kicked around in there, only much quieter.
My thoughts were clutch disks, or a loose primary chain. It was not very loud, just barely noticable.
We had a motorcycle mechanic listen to it, and he seemed to think it was no big deal. He suggested putting a heavier weight oil in it.
We just put some motorcycle 20w50 in there, and now the noise is MUCH more amplified. It's also a bit more constant, although not perfectly constant. Deffinately sounds like metal on metal in the cluch area.
When idleing in nuetral, If you pull the clutch in, the noise will go away for a second, and then come back (while still holding the clutch).
Oil is full. Clutch is adjusted properly and works fine.
Is there a primary chain tensioner on this thing? What else should we look at or do? Any help is appriciated, as we have a 2-3 thousand mile ride planned for next month.
Thanks!
#2
07-14-2007, 11:49 PM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: La Costa, CA
Posts: 807
RE: Help! Clickity Clack coming from the Clutch Region
The EX500 does not have a primary chain, like Harleys have. The engine's crank is directly engaged to the driveshaft via the transmission, (i.e. gear-driven.) The camchain, however could be making the noise, and camchain tensioners are prone to failure on the older models.
I'm concerned about this mechanic telling you to put heavier oil in it. It seems obvious and instinctive that a heavier oil will protect your engine, right? But it's simply not so.
The problem with 20-50 oil in any place other than Pheonix in the summer, is that it is too thick to flow when you first start the engine. When the oil cannot flow, you will have cavitation (or bubbles) in the lubrication system that will result in temporary/brief oil starvation and those metal surfaces that rely on oil pressure are beating/scraping/grinding against each other!
It's impossible to tell if this is the problem without hearing it myself, but I would strongly recommend putting 10-40 in the engine and seeing if the problem persists. If it still does, the next thing I would look at is the camchain tensioner. Try removing it, resetting it per the service manual, and reinstalling it. If that doesn't work, I'd take it to a different mechanic.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Peace!
-CCinC
I'm concerned about this mechanic telling you to put heavier oil in it. It seems obvious and instinctive that a heavier oil will protect your engine, right? But it's simply not so.
The problem with 20-50 oil in any place other than Pheonix in the summer, is that it is too thick to flow when you first start the engine. When the oil cannot flow, you will have cavitation (or bubbles) in the lubrication system that will result in temporary/brief oil starvation and those metal surfaces that rely on oil pressure are beating/scraping/grinding against each other!
It's impossible to tell if this is the problem without hearing it myself, but I would strongly recommend putting 10-40 in the engine and seeing if the problem persists. If it still does, the next thing I would look at is the camchain tensioner. Try removing it, resetting it per the service manual, and reinstalling it. If that doesn't work, I'd take it to a different mechanic.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Peace!
-CCinC
#3
07-15-2007, 01:06 AM
RE: Help! Clickity Clack coming from the Clutch Region
ORIGINAL: calamarichris
The EX500 does not have a primary chain, like Harleys have. The engine's crank is directly engaged to the driveshaft via the transmission, (i.e. gear-driven.) The camchain, however could be making the noise, and camchain tensioners are prone to failure on the older models.
I'm concerned about this mechanic telling you to put heavier oil in it. It seems obvious and instinctive that a heavier oil will protect your engine, right? But it's simply not so.
The problem with 20-50 oil in any place other than Pheonix in the summer, is that it is too thick to flow when you first start the engine. When the oil cannot flow, you will have cavitation (or bubbles) in the lubrication system that will result in temporary/brief oil starvation and those metal surfaces that rely on oil pressure are beating/scraping/grinding against each other!
It's impossible to tell if this is the problem without hearing it myself, but I would strongly recommend putting 10-40 in the engine and seeing if the problem persists. If it still does, the next thing I would look at is the camchain tensioner. Try removing it, resetting it per the service manual, and reinstalling it. If that doesn't work, I'd take it to a different mechanic.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Peace!
-CCinC
The EX500 does not have a primary chain, like Harleys have. The engine's crank is directly engaged to the driveshaft via the transmission, (i.e. gear-driven.) The camchain, however could be making the noise, and camchain tensioners are prone to failure on the older models.
I'm concerned about this mechanic telling you to put heavier oil in it. It seems obvious and instinctive that a heavier oil will protect your engine, right? But it's simply not so.
The problem with 20-50 oil in any place other than Pheonix in the summer, is that it is too thick to flow when you first start the engine. When the oil cannot flow, you will have cavitation (or bubbles) in the lubrication system that will result in temporary/brief oil starvation and those metal surfaces that rely on oil pressure are beating/scraping/grinding against each other!
It's impossible to tell if this is the problem without hearing it myself, but I would strongly recommend putting 10-40 in the engine and seeing if the problem persists. If it still does, the next thing I would look at is the camchain tensioner. Try removing it, resetting it per the service manual, and reinstalling it. If that doesn't work, I'd take it to a different mechanic.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Peace!
-CCinC
#4
07-15-2007, 02:21 AM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: La Costa, CA
Posts: 807
RE: Help! Clickity Clack coming from the Clutch Region
Once you get it warmed up, the oil will flow and not cause a problem. The danger is when the engine's cold and the oil is at its thickest.
I neglected to say before: if the clacking continues when the engine is hot, then it is probably not cavitation and the 20-50 is fine.
It made my ears ***** up when he said "clacking" because my old POS Honda Superhawk made a terrible clacking noise with 20-50 in it; like marbles being smashed in the crankcase. But the clacking ceased as soon as I put 10-40 back in.
-CCinC
I neglected to say before: if the clacking continues when the engine is hot, then it is probably not cavitation and the 20-50 is fine.
It made my ears ***** up when he said "clacking" because my old POS Honda Superhawk made a terrible clacking noise with 20-50 in it; like marbles being smashed in the crankcase. But the clacking ceased as soon as I put 10-40 back in.
-CCinC
#5
07-15-2007, 04:04 AM
RE: Help! Clickity Clack coming from the Clutch Region
im have to side with Dragone, here in florida thats all i tell thecustomers to use,but i also talk to them about letting the unit warm up, if you let her warm up she wont have any problems,Negitive on cam chain from clutch? it would be top end and also "It's not a constant noise, more random"-Mikef500, if it was her should would it all the time and not go away and then come back when clutch was pulled in, tear the cover off and see whats goin on in there,it sounds like to me a clutch issue, check the basket for notching
id just drain all the oil out of it and death revv it, let it bounce off the limiter about 2 or 3 good times and see if that cleared it up,really that was joke i dont want any lawsuits
id just drain all the oil out of it and death revv it, let it bounce off the limiter about 2 or 3 good times and see if that cleared it up,really that was joke i dont want any lawsuits
#6
07-15-2007, 06:54 AM
RE: Help! Clickity Clack coming from the Clutch Region
ORIGINAL: mmi86
im have to side with Dragone, here in florida thats all i tell thecustomers to use,but i also talk to them about letting the unit warm up, if you let her warm up she wont have any problems,Negitive on cam chain from clutch? it would be top end and also "It's not a constant noise, more random"-Mikef500, if it was her should would it all the time and not go away and then come back when clutch was pulled in, tear the cover off and see whats goin on in there,it sounds like to me a clutch issue, check the basket for notching
id just drain all the oil out of it and death revv it, let it bounce off the limiter about 2 or 3 good times and see if that cleared it up,really that was joke i dont want any lawsuits
im have to side with Dragone, here in florida thats all i tell thecustomers to use,but i also talk to them about letting the unit warm up, if you let her warm up she wont have any problems,Negitive on cam chain from clutch? it would be top end and also "It's not a constant noise, more random"-Mikef500, if it was her should would it all the time and not go away and then come back when clutch was pulled in, tear the cover off and see whats goin on in there,it sounds like to me a clutch issue, check the basket for notching
id just drain all the oil out of it and death revv it, let it bounce off the limiter about 2 or 3 good times and see if that cleared it up,really that was joke i dont want any lawsuits
#8
07-15-2007, 03:17 PM
RE: Help! Clickity Clack coming from the Clutch Region
We will put the thinner oil back in it, but it made the same noise with the thinner oil in it earlier, albiet, not as loud.
Would the "notched basket" Still rattle no matter if the clutch is in or our or the bike is in Nueteral of first? This rattle continues through all of those.
Thanks for the help so far guys!
Would the "notched basket" Still rattle no matter if the clutch is in or our or the bike is in Nueteral of first? This rattle continues through all of those.
Thanks for the help so far guys!
#9
07-15-2007, 05:39 PM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: La Costa, CA
Posts: 807
RE: Help! Clickity Clack coming from the Clutch Region
How long did you run the engine?
Does the clatter happen:
~When it's in gear with the clutch out? (i.e. rolling)?
~When the engine is thoroughly warmed up?
~At all rpm?
If you don't have a mechanic's stethoscope you can use a piece of cardboard. By sitting down and getting eye-level with the engine and holding up the cardboard over the top and the bottom ends, and on both sides of the bike, you'll be able to isolate accurately where the noise is originating.
Good luck and don't give up.
Peace!
-CCinC
Does the clatter happen:
~When it's in gear with the clutch out? (i.e. rolling)?
~When the engine is thoroughly warmed up?
~At all rpm?
If you don't have a mechanic's stethoscope you can use a piece of cardboard. By sitting down and getting eye-level with the engine and holding up the cardboard over the top and the bottom ends, and on both sides of the bike, you'll be able to isolate accurately where the noise is originating.
Good luck and don't give up.
Peace!
-CCinC
#10
07-15-2007, 08:22 PM
RE: Help! Clickity Clack coming from the Clutch Region
Alright!
We reset the cam chain tensioner... and the noise seems to have dissapeared!
This makes no sense to me, as it doesn't seem like the cam chain would go near the clutch (Maybe it does?), but it was very apparent that that was were the sound was coming from.
Right off the get go the sound was gone. Once fully warmed up the thing sounds quieter then it ever has before.
I appriciate the help guys! And I'll update you if anything else happens.
We reset the cam chain tensioner... and the noise seems to have dissapeared!
This makes no sense to me, as it doesn't seem like the cam chain would go near the clutch (Maybe it does?), but it was very apparent that that was were the sound was coming from.
Right off the get go the sound was gone. Once fully warmed up the thing sounds quieter then it ever has before.
I appriciate the help guys! And I'll update you if anything else happens.