your other ride...
#91
09-01-2006, 05:58 PM
RE: your other ride...
ORIGINAL: Marty
LordVngr,
I don't want to continue on with a "which is better" urination competition. I ride the bikes I like to and you the ones you want to. Matter of fact, I look forward to when we can get together and do some burning up of the roads and trails in the Ocala National Forest. Heck, I'll even ride with you over to Bike Week on whatever you want to ride.
After working with and around the H-D crowd for so many years, comments like, "BUT I dont see any Harley's. Totally different Animal dude. Your collection isnt Complete without a Harley in there." is something that just sets me off.
I've watched firsthand, people walk into the H-D deaership that I helped put the Rider Education program together at with a look in their eyes like someone on drugs. "I need a Harley, only a Harley will do!" was what was coming out of their mouths.
Hey, H-D makes a very well made product. They should since it is basically the same thing as they started making in 1936 with the EL. 74 cubic inch V-Twin with overhead valves. The same case design with a few tweaks has been used up through the Evo motors. Oh, head design changed somewhat, Knucklehead, Pan, Shovel, Blockhead, but the main engine has not. If it wasn't for the magic marketing folks at H-D, I don't think they would be able to compete in today's marketplace, but for some reason, they certainly do.
I have overhead salesmen telling the customers, "Hey, it's a Harley-Davidson - kind of like an investment, you will always be able to get your money back on resale!" Then I've watched the same salesman explain to the customer about the $5000 in "accessories" that has been added to their original purchase and installed at the dealership, why it does not increase the trade-in value of their bike. "We can transfer all those accessories to your new bike." and the customer look at them with the same look as I described above simply say, "Okay."
Then I read ads in the paper. Have you ever noticed there are more Harleys for sale in the newspaper than any other brand? Why is that? But your typical ad is something like . . . . . "1992 FatBoy, original owner, 4200 miles, never ridden in rain, garaged, chromed out, lots of accessories, $22,000 obo." So, we have a 15 year old bike with 1936 technology, that has been ridden an average of about 300 miles a year since purchase. Do those folks actually consider themselves as riders, or bikers? Also heard a comment one day from one of our students . . . . "Heck, I ride my bike. Why last weekend I rode almost 100 miles on Sunday!" I average 100 miles a day on my bikes. I don't think anything about jumping on and heading off for a 1000 miles in 2 days, just to ride.
Next you have the mentality of just about every Harley biker here in Florida - where there is a helmet law (you really need to read the law as it is very obscure, but it is there) - that ride without a helmet on. These are the same folks that ride the 300 to 600 miles each year! These are the very riders that have been lucky enough to survive on a motorcycle for this long! I cringe each time I go to Bike Week or Biketoberfest. I see the folks riding that push their bikes around a turn from a stop light! Heck, that's like cutting down a tree with a chainsaw, but not starting the motor on the chainsaw! I saw one guy that was stopped on Main Street on a brand new H-D product that wanted to pull into a parking spot. He held the clutch completely against the grip while he straddle walked the bike into a parking lot on the left side of the street. I mean he was pushing this bike across traffic into a parking lot. Don't these folks know that there is the ability to put the clutch in the friction zone and use the power of the engine to make the bike move as a slow speed?
Perhaps it is the mentality I see out there with the H-D crowd - not all of them attempt to hone their riding skills. I saw a rider lose his life one day because they did not know how to safely stop their motorcycle when a car pulled out in front of them. They locked the front brake up, lost control of the bike when they tried to turn the handlebars to avoid hitting the car and went down - under the car. I was talking to the LEO that investigated the crash. We talked about it afterwards and he told me it was what I saw - a rider that did not have adequate riding skills to avoid a situation that a trained rider would have simply slowed the motorcycle down without locking the front wheel up and had been able to manuver the bike around the person that pulled out in front of them without incident. Oh, I also found out that the rider did NOT have an endorsement for riding a motorcycle.
Please excuse my time on the soapbox, but I spend a lot of time trying to train riders on how to avoid this type of riding. I am very passionate about the work I do, as I care about riders. I like to see them have the skills to ride a motorcycle properly, to be able to avoid crashes by possessing the skills necessary to do so. I just wish all riders would keep their proficiency up to the task. You can not do that by riding twice a year back and forth to rallies!
I don't have a problem with H-D, it's just the mindset of some of those that own the product - you know those that make comments regularly like, "when are you gonna get a real bike?"
Let's just put this to bed and when do you want to go riding?
LordVngr,
I don't want to continue on with a "which is better" urination competition. I ride the bikes I like to and you the ones you want to. Matter of fact, I look forward to when we can get together and do some burning up of the roads and trails in the Ocala National Forest. Heck, I'll even ride with you over to Bike Week on whatever you want to ride.
After working with and around the H-D crowd for so many years, comments like, "BUT I dont see any Harley's. Totally different Animal dude. Your collection isnt Complete without a Harley in there." is something that just sets me off.
I've watched firsthand, people walk into the H-D deaership that I helped put the Rider Education program together at with a look in their eyes like someone on drugs. "I need a Harley, only a Harley will do!" was what was coming out of their mouths.
Hey, H-D makes a very well made product. They should since it is basically the same thing as they started making in 1936 with the EL. 74 cubic inch V-Twin with overhead valves. The same case design with a few tweaks has been used up through the Evo motors. Oh, head design changed somewhat, Knucklehead, Pan, Shovel, Blockhead, but the main engine has not. If it wasn't for the magic marketing folks at H-D, I don't think they would be able to compete in today's marketplace, but for some reason, they certainly do.
I have overhead salesmen telling the customers, "Hey, it's a Harley-Davidson - kind of like an investment, you will always be able to get your money back on resale!" Then I've watched the same salesman explain to the customer about the $5000 in "accessories" that has been added to their original purchase and installed at the dealership, why it does not increase the trade-in value of their bike. "We can transfer all those accessories to your new bike." and the customer look at them with the same look as I described above simply say, "Okay."
Then I read ads in the paper. Have you ever noticed there are more Harleys for sale in the newspaper than any other brand? Why is that? But your typical ad is something like . . . . . "1992 FatBoy, original owner, 4200 miles, never ridden in rain, garaged, chromed out, lots of accessories, $22,000 obo." So, we have a 15 year old bike with 1936 technology, that has been ridden an average of about 300 miles a year since purchase. Do those folks actually consider themselves as riders, or bikers? Also heard a comment one day from one of our students . . . . "Heck, I ride my bike. Why last weekend I rode almost 100 miles on Sunday!" I average 100 miles a day on my bikes. I don't think anything about jumping on and heading off for a 1000 miles in 2 days, just to ride.
Next you have the mentality of just about every Harley biker here in Florida - where there is a helmet law (you really need to read the law as it is very obscure, but it is there) - that ride without a helmet on. These are the same folks that ride the 300 to 600 miles each year! These are the very riders that have been lucky enough to survive on a motorcycle for this long! I cringe each time I go to Bike Week or Biketoberfest. I see the folks riding that push their bikes around a turn from a stop light! Heck, that's like cutting down a tree with a chainsaw, but not starting the motor on the chainsaw! I saw one guy that was stopped on Main Street on a brand new H-D product that wanted to pull into a parking spot. He held the clutch completely against the grip while he straddle walked the bike into a parking lot on the left side of the street. I mean he was pushing this bike across traffic into a parking lot. Don't these folks know that there is the ability to put the clutch in the friction zone and use the power of the engine to make the bike move as a slow speed?
Perhaps it is the mentality I see out there with the H-D crowd - not all of them attempt to hone their riding skills. I saw a rider lose his life one day because they did not know how to safely stop their motorcycle when a car pulled out in front of them. They locked the front brake up, lost control of the bike when they tried to turn the handlebars to avoid hitting the car and went down - under the car. I was talking to the LEO that investigated the crash. We talked about it afterwards and he told me it was what I saw - a rider that did not have adequate riding skills to avoid a situation that a trained rider would have simply slowed the motorcycle down without locking the front wheel up and had been able to manuver the bike around the person that pulled out in front of them without incident. Oh, I also found out that the rider did NOT have an endorsement for riding a motorcycle.
Please excuse my time on the soapbox, but I spend a lot of time trying to train riders on how to avoid this type of riding. I am very passionate about the work I do, as I care about riders. I like to see them have the skills to ride a motorcycle properly, to be able to avoid crashes by possessing the skills necessary to do so. I just wish all riders would keep their proficiency up to the task. You can not do that by riding twice a year back and forth to rallies!
I don't have a problem with H-D, it's just the mindset of some of those that own the product - you know those that make comments regularly like, "when are you gonna get a real bike?"
Let's just put this to bed and when do you want to go riding?
Marty
Well, I for one wasnt in a pissing contest with you. Not about which bike is better or anything else. perhaps my comment about about where's the harley wasnt called for But then nethier have comments about girls bike, garage queens, not noticing vibrations on the KLX been called for either. But hey its a forum and its all in good fun.
You make a lot of valied comments in your post about rider knowledege and other things BUT Everything you say Applies to Other Types of bike riders too, Not Just Harley owners. There are Lots of Posers out there. On harleys as well as Klx250s. There are also lots of wannabe riders on Sport bikes that do Stupid stuff too. If you think the harley croud is bad the sport bike crowd is worse. 100mph+, lane splitting, doing wheelies down I-275. One could tak Sh*t about Every Type of motorcyclist out there. Harley, sportbike, moped, etc,etc. For you to generalize and talk down about a harley rider Just Beacuse their a harley rider doesnt say much for you dude. In all honesty though I have heard that MSF instructors dont like harley riders and you seem to be proving that point.
Also you seem to think that if someone doesnt put 5000/10000 miles a year on a bike their not Real Riders. Thats Bogus too bro. Kind of like the harley rider who thinks if your on another brand of bike your not a real rider either. Reading the post above I see a Lot of animosity against Harley bikes and their riders, while normally thats not a big deal, You as a MSF instructer should know better. I wonder how your harley students would feel if they knew how their instructer felt about their bike choice and the type of people who ride them.
LV
#92
09-01-2006, 06:00 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Just South of the Ocala Nationa Forest
Posts: 1,262
RE: your other ride...
In my opinion, believe it or not, the Basic Rider Course is one of the best values out there.
Not only do you get about 16 hours of training for about $240 ($15 per hour) you also get to ride someone else's bike!
The first couple of exercises are a bit boring if you already know how to ride, but then the intensity goes up quite a bit. Lots of everyday situations, turns after stops, riding slow, pause and go, cornering, upshifting & downshifting, limited space manuvers, swerving, avoiding hazards, obstacles and several other skills like stopping safely and quickly, both in straight lines and in a curve.
The MSF has put together a course that provides you with a lot of necessary motorcycling skills for you to practice on your own.
I have egged several of my riding friends into taking the MSF Basic Rider Course. Some of them have been riding for many years. I haven't had any of them tell me it was a waste of time. They all learned something. Personally, I had been riding for many years myself when I took the old MSF MRC:RSS class. This was the precursor to what is presently being taught. I learned a lot myself as I was mostly self-taught on riding. After taking the course, I found myself to be a better rider. Shortly thereafter, I looked into becoming a RiderCoach at MSF. It's a very fulfilling job. If I could just figure out how to do it full-time I would do nothing else!
Not only do you get about 16 hours of training for about $240 ($15 per hour) you also get to ride someone else's bike!
The first couple of exercises are a bit boring if you already know how to ride, but then the intensity goes up quite a bit. Lots of everyday situations, turns after stops, riding slow, pause and go, cornering, upshifting & downshifting, limited space manuvers, swerving, avoiding hazards, obstacles and several other skills like stopping safely and quickly, both in straight lines and in a curve.
The MSF has put together a course that provides you with a lot of necessary motorcycling skills for you to practice on your own.
I have egged several of my riding friends into taking the MSF Basic Rider Course. Some of them have been riding for many years. I haven't had any of them tell me it was a waste of time. They all learned something. Personally, I had been riding for many years myself when I took the old MSF MRC:RSS class. This was the precursor to what is presently being taught. I learned a lot myself as I was mostly self-taught on riding. After taking the course, I found myself to be a better rider. Shortly thereafter, I looked into becoming a RiderCoach at MSF. It's a very fulfilling job. If I could just figure out how to do it full-time I would do nothing else!
#93
09-01-2006, 06:14 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Just South of the Ocala Nationa Forest
Posts: 1,262
RE: your other ride...
LV,
Please understand the issue of H-D came up as you brought it up.
I don't have a problem with any kind of bike that a rider rides. In my opinion, anything that has a motor and two wheels, controls and a seat is a motorcycle. I enjoy all kinds of motorcycles. Heck I've owned Harleys. Please do not think for a minute I hold it against any Harley rider. Many of my friends that I ride with are on Harley-Davidsons. Matter of fact, several of them are on the Daytona Beach Harley-Davidson Drill Team. Now, those are riders! I've ridden some practices with them. They share my same feelings about the folks that think they know how to ride.
If you had brought up sportbikes, I have no use for a squid on a sportbike. If you ride like an ***, I will probably turn you in to a LEO that I see. There is no reason to ride like that on a public highway. Speed limits are out there for a reason.
Heck, one of my favorite pass times is riding by the squid on the sportbike on corner entry. I like to do this on my KLR650 or even my KLX. The look on their face is . . . . well, priceless! Matter of fact, I have a KLR250 that I hope to have built into a SuperMotard for just that purpose.
With regards to animosity - no way. I do not dislike any of the riders out there. However those that try to impress folks with their knowledge when they don't possess any, well that's another story.
Of course, there are just simply more targets out there when the H-D discussion comes up . . . . .
If that bothers you, I just simply won't bring it up again.
With regards to MSF instructors not liking Harley riders . . . . . that sir is complete unadulterated BS! Where you come up with that is beyond me, but it is simply untrue.
You need to understand a few points. There is a big difference between a motorcyclist and a rider. Once you understand that, you will understand my views.
As of now, the subject is closed. I don't want to bother the fine folks on this forum any longer with this discussion.
Please understand the issue of H-D came up as you brought it up.
I don't have a problem with any kind of bike that a rider rides. In my opinion, anything that has a motor and two wheels, controls and a seat is a motorcycle. I enjoy all kinds of motorcycles. Heck I've owned Harleys. Please do not think for a minute I hold it against any Harley rider. Many of my friends that I ride with are on Harley-Davidsons. Matter of fact, several of them are on the Daytona Beach Harley-Davidson Drill Team. Now, those are riders! I've ridden some practices with them. They share my same feelings about the folks that think they know how to ride.
If you had brought up sportbikes, I have no use for a squid on a sportbike. If you ride like an ***, I will probably turn you in to a LEO that I see. There is no reason to ride like that on a public highway. Speed limits are out there for a reason.
Heck, one of my favorite pass times is riding by the squid on the sportbike on corner entry. I like to do this on my KLR650 or even my KLX. The look on their face is . . . . well, priceless! Matter of fact, I have a KLR250 that I hope to have built into a SuperMotard for just that purpose.
With regards to animosity - no way. I do not dislike any of the riders out there. However those that try to impress folks with their knowledge when they don't possess any, well that's another story.
Of course, there are just simply more targets out there when the H-D discussion comes up . . . . .
If that bothers you, I just simply won't bring it up again.
With regards to MSF instructors not liking Harley riders . . . . . that sir is complete unadulterated BS! Where you come up with that is beyond me, but it is simply untrue.
You need to understand a few points. There is a big difference between a motorcyclist and a rider. Once you understand that, you will understand my views.
As of now, the subject is closed. I don't want to bother the fine folks on this forum any longer with this discussion.
#94
09-01-2006, 06:20 PM
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Washington
Posts: 21,060
RE: your other ride...
ORIGINAL: Marty
Yes, I teach the MSF rider course on a regular basis.
I find it very satisfying to take a person that has never ridden a motorcycle - some have never even started a motorcycle before - and at the end of the weekend have them riding around like they've been on a motorcycle for a long time.
The super scary part is that when they complete the course, they have more skills than many folks currently riding a motorcycle, with or without endorsements.
I do belive in rider education / training. I even take course myself on a regular basis. You can never be too good of a rider.
ORIGINAL: EMS_0525
wow.... very true... i wont elaborate on that subject.... just one question What work do you do? are u an instructor or something?
wow.... very true... i wont elaborate on that subject.... just one question What work do you do? are u an instructor or something?
Yes, I teach the MSF rider course on a regular basis.
I find it very satisfying to take a person that has never ridden a motorcycle - some have never even started a motorcycle before - and at the end of the weekend have them riding around like they've been on a motorcycle for a long time.
The super scary part is that when they complete the course, they have more skills than many folks currently riding a motorcycle, with or without endorsements.
I do belive in rider education / training. I even take course myself on a regular basis. You can never be too good of a rider.
You know if it wasn't for you I would never even have heard of the school, now I have 5 people scheduled to take the class, thank Marty you are the man.
#95
09-01-2006, 06:27 PM
RE: your other ride...
ORIGINAL: Marty
LV,
Please understand the issue of H-D came up as you brought it up.
I don't have a problem with any kind of bike that a rider rides. In my opinion, anything that has a motor and two wheels, controls and a seat is a motorcycle. I enjoy all kinds of motorcycles. Heck I've owned Harleys. Please do not think for a minute I hold it against any Harley rider. Many of my friends that I ride with are on Harley-Davidsons. Matter of fact, several of them are on the Daytona Beach Harley-Davidson Drill Team. Now, those are riders! I've ridden some practices with them. They share my same feelings about the folks that think they know how to ride.
If you had brought up sportbikes, I have no use for a squid on a sportbike. If you ride like an ***, I will probably turn you in to a LEO that I see. There is no reason to ride like that on a public highway. Speed limits are out there for a reason.
Heck, one of my favorite pass times is riding by the squid on the sportbike on corner entry. I like to do this on my KLR650 or even my KLX. The look on their face is . . . . well, priceless! Matter of fact, I have a KLR250 that I hope to have built into a SuperMotard for just that purpose.
With regards to animosity - no way. I do not dislike any of the riders out there. However those that try to impress folks with their knowledge when they don't possess any, well that's another story.
Of course, there are just simply more targets out there when the H-D discussion comes up . . . . .
If that bothers you, I just simply won't bring it up again.
With regards to MSF instructors not liking Harley riders . . . . . that sir is complete unadulterated BS! Where you come up with that is beyond me, but it is simply untrue.
You need to understand a few points. There is a big difference between a motorcyclist and a rider. Once you understand that, you will understand my views.
As of now, the subject is closed. I don't want to bother the fine folks on this forum any longer with this discussion.
LV,
Please understand the issue of H-D came up as you brought it up.
I don't have a problem with any kind of bike that a rider rides. In my opinion, anything that has a motor and two wheels, controls and a seat is a motorcycle. I enjoy all kinds of motorcycles. Heck I've owned Harleys. Please do not think for a minute I hold it against any Harley rider. Many of my friends that I ride with are on Harley-Davidsons. Matter of fact, several of them are on the Daytona Beach Harley-Davidson Drill Team. Now, those are riders! I've ridden some practices with them. They share my same feelings about the folks that think they know how to ride.
If you had brought up sportbikes, I have no use for a squid on a sportbike. If you ride like an ***, I will probably turn you in to a LEO that I see. There is no reason to ride like that on a public highway. Speed limits are out there for a reason.
Heck, one of my favorite pass times is riding by the squid on the sportbike on corner entry. I like to do this on my KLR650 or even my KLX. The look on their face is . . . . well, priceless! Matter of fact, I have a KLR250 that I hope to have built into a SuperMotard for just that purpose.
With regards to animosity - no way. I do not dislike any of the riders out there. However those that try to impress folks with their knowledge when they don't possess any, well that's another story.
Of course, there are just simply more targets out there when the H-D discussion comes up . . . . .
If that bothers you, I just simply won't bring it up again.
With regards to MSF instructors not liking Harley riders . . . . . that sir is complete unadulterated BS! Where you come up with that is beyond me, but it is simply untrue.
You need to understand a few points. There is a big difference between a motorcyclist and a rider. Once you understand that, you will understand my views.
As of now, the subject is closed. I don't want to bother the fine folks on this forum any longer with this discussion.
Belive me I know the difference between a motorcyclist and a rider but I think your definition and mine are different. And one only has to read Your Posts to see how you feel about harleys and there riders. I dont have to say a word....
LV
#96
09-01-2006, 07:46 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: your other ride...
ORIGINAL: Marty
LordVngr,
I don't want to continue on with a "which is better" urination competition. I ride the bikes I like to and you the ones you want to. Matter of fact, I look forward to when we can get together and do some burning up of the roads and trails in the Ocala National Forest. Heck, I'll even ride with you over to Bike Week on whatever you want to ride.
After working with and around the H-D crowd for so many years, comments like, "BUT I dont see any Harley's. Totally different Animal dude. Your collection isnt Complete without a Harley in there." is something that just sets me off.
I've watched firsthand, people walk into the H-D deaership that I helped put the Rider Education program together at with a look in their eyes like someone on drugs. "I need a Harley, only a Harley will do!" was what was coming out of their mouths.
Hey, H-D makes a very well made product. They should since it is basically the same thing as they started making in 1936 with the EL. 74 cubic inch V-Twin with overhead valves. The same case design with a few tweaks has been used up through the Evo motors. Oh, head design changed somewhat, Knucklehead, Pan, Shovel, Blockhead, but the main engine has not. If it wasn't for the magic marketing folks at H-D, I don't think they would be able to compete in today's marketplace, but for some reason, they certainly do.
I have overhead salesmen telling the customers, "Hey, it's a Harley-Davidson - kind of like an investment, you will always be able to get your money back on resale!" Then I've watched the same salesman explain to the customer about the $5000 in "accessories" that has been added to their original purchase and installed at the dealership, why it does not increase the trade-in value of their bike. "We can transfer all those accessories to your new bike." and the customer look at them with the same look as I described above simply say, "Okay."
Then I read ads in the paper. Have you ever noticed there are more Harleys for sale in the newspaper than any other brand? Why is that? But your typical ad is something like . . . . . "1992 FatBoy, original owner, 4200 miles, never ridden in rain, garaged, chromed out, lots of accessories, $22,000 obo." So, we have a 15 year old bike with 1936 technology, that has been ridden an average of about 300 miles a year since purchase. Do those folks actually consider themselves as riders, or bikers? Also heard a comment one day from one of our students . . . . "Heck, I ride my bike. Why last weekend I rode almost 100 miles on Sunday!" I average 100 miles a day on my bikes. I don't think anything about jumping on and heading off for a 1000 miles in 2 days, just to ride.
Next you have the mentality of just about every Harley biker here in Florida - where there is a helmet law (you really need to read the law as it is very obscure, but it is there) - that ride without a helmet on. These are the same folks that ride the 300 to 600 miles each year! These are the very riders that have been lucky enough to survive on a motorcycle for this long! I cringe each time I go to Bike Week or Biketoberfest. I see the folks riding that push their bikes around a turn from a stop light! Heck, that's like cutting down a tree with a chainsaw, but not starting the motor on the chainsaw! I saw one guy that was stopped on Main Street on a brand new H-D product that wanted to pull into a parking spot. He held the clutch completely against the grip while he straddle walked the bike into a parking lot on the left side of the street. I mean he was pushing this bike across traffic into a parking lot. Don't these folks know that there is the ability to put the clutch in the friction zone and use the power of the engine to make the bike move as a slow speed?
Perhaps it is the mentality I see out there with the H-D crowd - not all of them attempt to hone their riding skills. I saw a rider lose his life one day because they did not know how to safely stop their motorcycle when a car pulled out in front of them. They locked the front brake up, lost control of the bike when they tried to turn the handlebars to avoid hitting the car and went down - under the car. I was talking to the LEO that investigated the crash. We talked about it afterwards and he told me it was what I saw - a rider that did not have adequate riding skills to avoid a situation that a trained rider would have simply slowed the motorcycle down without locking the front wheel up and had been able to manuver the bike around the person that pulled out in front of them without incident. Oh, I also found out that the rider did NOT have an endorsement for riding a motorcycle.
Please excuse my time on the soapbox, but I spend a lot of time trying to train riders on how to avoid this type of riding. I am very passionate about the work I do, as I care about riders. I like to see them have the skills to ride a motorcycle properly, to be able to avoid crashes by possessing the skills necessary to do so. I just wish all riders would keep their proficiency up to the task. You can not do that by riding twice a year back and forth to rallies!
I don't have a problem with H-D, it's just the mindset of some of those that own the product - you know those that make comments regularly like, "when are you gonna get a real bike?"
Let's just put this to bed and when do you want to go riding?
LordVngr,
I don't want to continue on with a "which is better" urination competition. I ride the bikes I like to and you the ones you want to. Matter of fact, I look forward to when we can get together and do some burning up of the roads and trails in the Ocala National Forest. Heck, I'll even ride with you over to Bike Week on whatever you want to ride.
After working with and around the H-D crowd for so many years, comments like, "BUT I dont see any Harley's. Totally different Animal dude. Your collection isnt Complete without a Harley in there." is something that just sets me off.
I've watched firsthand, people walk into the H-D deaership that I helped put the Rider Education program together at with a look in their eyes like someone on drugs. "I need a Harley, only a Harley will do!" was what was coming out of their mouths.
Hey, H-D makes a very well made product. They should since it is basically the same thing as they started making in 1936 with the EL. 74 cubic inch V-Twin with overhead valves. The same case design with a few tweaks has been used up through the Evo motors. Oh, head design changed somewhat, Knucklehead, Pan, Shovel, Blockhead, but the main engine has not. If it wasn't for the magic marketing folks at H-D, I don't think they would be able to compete in today's marketplace, but for some reason, they certainly do.
I have overhead salesmen telling the customers, "Hey, it's a Harley-Davidson - kind of like an investment, you will always be able to get your money back on resale!" Then I've watched the same salesman explain to the customer about the $5000 in "accessories" that has been added to their original purchase and installed at the dealership, why it does not increase the trade-in value of their bike. "We can transfer all those accessories to your new bike." and the customer look at them with the same look as I described above simply say, "Okay."
Then I read ads in the paper. Have you ever noticed there are more Harleys for sale in the newspaper than any other brand? Why is that? But your typical ad is something like . . . . . "1992 FatBoy, original owner, 4200 miles, never ridden in rain, garaged, chromed out, lots of accessories, $22,000 obo." So, we have a 15 year old bike with 1936 technology, that has been ridden an average of about 300 miles a year since purchase. Do those folks actually consider themselves as riders, or bikers? Also heard a comment one day from one of our students . . . . "Heck, I ride my bike. Why last weekend I rode almost 100 miles on Sunday!" I average 100 miles a day on my bikes. I don't think anything about jumping on and heading off for a 1000 miles in 2 days, just to ride.
Next you have the mentality of just about every Harley biker here in Florida - where there is a helmet law (you really need to read the law as it is very obscure, but it is there) - that ride without a helmet on. These are the same folks that ride the 300 to 600 miles each year! These are the very riders that have been lucky enough to survive on a motorcycle for this long! I cringe each time I go to Bike Week or Biketoberfest. I see the folks riding that push their bikes around a turn from a stop light! Heck, that's like cutting down a tree with a chainsaw, but not starting the motor on the chainsaw! I saw one guy that was stopped on Main Street on a brand new H-D product that wanted to pull into a parking spot. He held the clutch completely against the grip while he straddle walked the bike into a parking lot on the left side of the street. I mean he was pushing this bike across traffic into a parking lot. Don't these folks know that there is the ability to put the clutch in the friction zone and use the power of the engine to make the bike move as a slow speed?
Perhaps it is the mentality I see out there with the H-D crowd - not all of them attempt to hone their riding skills. I saw a rider lose his life one day because they did not know how to safely stop their motorcycle when a car pulled out in front of them. They locked the front brake up, lost control of the bike when they tried to turn the handlebars to avoid hitting the car and went down - under the car. I was talking to the LEO that investigated the crash. We talked about it afterwards and he told me it was what I saw - a rider that did not have adequate riding skills to avoid a situation that a trained rider would have simply slowed the motorcycle down without locking the front wheel up and had been able to manuver the bike around the person that pulled out in front of them without incident. Oh, I also found out that the rider did NOT have an endorsement for riding a motorcycle.
Please excuse my time on the soapbox, but I spend a lot of time trying to train riders on how to avoid this type of riding. I am very passionate about the work I do, as I care about riders. I like to see them have the skills to ride a motorcycle properly, to be able to avoid crashes by possessing the skills necessary to do so. I just wish all riders would keep their proficiency up to the task. You can not do that by riding twice a year back and forth to rallies!
I don't have a problem with H-D, it's just the mindset of some of those that own the product - you know those that make comments regularly like, "when are you gonna get a real bike?"
Let's just put this to bed and when do you want to go riding?
Your soapbox post is bothersome since I too own a Harley-Davidson. I've owned Suzuki's, Honda's, Kawi's, Buell's, HD's. Your above blanket statements are true no matter what the rider rides. You talk like it's only HD riders that act this way or that do not know how to stop their bikes.
What it really comes down to after your education class to a first time rider/buyer is what the rider wants to buy, they'll buy it. EVERYONE knows that a Harley-Davidson will hold their retail value better than any mass-produced motorcycle and will continue to do so for years to come. It IS an investment. The mindset of some HD riders is terrible I'll agree, but let's not stereotype only HD riders here. Each brand has their problematic and un-knowledgeable riders out there. Motorcycle riding is a talent, it's not something that you can tell someone how to do. Anyone can ride a motorcycle with enough training, but to really RIDE it takes talent that no instructor can teach or show. I'm not mad at you or anything like that, but let's keep it real as I like to say.
#97
09-01-2006, 07:59 PM
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 12,584
RE: your other ride...
Wow, i had no idea this topic was gonna get this big.... lol[8D]
just thaught that i would add--- on the whole kawasakiforum.com page there is always the most people on the klx250s page... im starting to venture to the other sections, and there is harly anyone else on this site... all the people are here.. lol.. i think we are all addicts....
My name is eric and im addicted to this website....
just thaught that i would add--- on the whole kawasakiforum.com page there is always the most people on the klx250s page... im starting to venture to the other sections, and there is harly anyone else on this site... all the people are here.. lol.. i think we are all addicts....
My name is eric and im addicted to this website....
#99
09-01-2006, 08:53 PM
RE: your other ride...
Sorry but I'm gonna jump in here!!!
Unless you want this thread locked - have a little respect for each other. Just like our mom's always said - if you don't have something nice to say - don't say anything!!
Unless you want this thread locked - have a little respect for each other. Just like our mom's always said - if you don't have something nice to say - don't say anything!!