Name that noise...
It makes sense that manually adjusting the automatic unit by a click would quiet the cam chain. But if Krieger is correct, doing so could apply significant force on the chain resulting in premature wear of sliders and possibly other parts. Sounds kinda risky to me. YRMV.
It sounds llike something is loose and rattles. The cam chain on mine was rpm related, it came on at 5k and was loud between 5-6k then my powercore4 kicked in and it could'nt really be noticed after that.
Ditto. Did you notice it at 5-6K under decel? Thinking back, I didn't so much. It was more of an accel or constant power noise.
Think about this from the mechanical stand point - would you tighten up your drive chain banjo string tight? I kind of doubt it. Did you ever tighten up a bicycle chain banjo string tight then rotate the pedals? It is harder to crank. Fact is whenever someone overtightens the manual cam chain tensioner it actually will drag down the idle. Thus the proof that overtightening the cam drive by the "one click" method or jamming a pin or screwdriver inside the tensioner until it clicks is about as mechanically foolish as overtightening your drive chain. Something is either going to wear faster or give.
Now from the money stand point - a manual tensioner is $33 plus shipping and can be easily installed and adjusted within about a half hour without tearing into the engine. That slider inside the engine that will wear faster with the "one click" method is probably more than that and is an invasive repair. Then too, consider that putting excess tension on the cam drive will pull the cams down tighter in the head. If by some chance you break that thin film of oil enough to have metal to metal contact with the cam against the plain bearing surface machined in the head, you risk a cam siezure. This can ruin a very VERY expensive head and be very VERY expensive to repair.
Now, it isn't about selling you a cam chain tensioner. Fact is if that "one click" method had been presented to me back in 2000 when I had to do the top end of my KLX650 due to tensioner failure that ruined cam chains, I would have turned it down and converted my failed OEM tensioner manual just like I did anyway. Having a fair amount of mechanical experience, a mechanical engineering related technology degree, working as a quality tech/engineer in a cutting tool company and for an earth moving equipment company, I knew putting excess pressure on any chain drive system is a path way to damage. If it wasn't, the motorcycle manufacturer would put a whole lot stronger spring in there to force it in place and hold it there. I knew there had to be a way to adjust it better than the OEM part and a discussion and some brain storming brought up the suggestion of the manual unit from one of the guys that drag raced and used them on the drag bike. Over 30,000 miles and 4 adjustments later (new chains seating in) it's still working great.
When I started making these things my goal was to be able to put a quality part in a rider's hands at a price that made it a better deal than trying to make one themselves and one that was pretty much in everyone's reach rather easily. Than and not everyone has the time, skills, materials, equipment, or desire to do the work. Honestly, I didn't at the time.
I didn't have the desire, when the Zephyr tensioner was junk. I wanted to just buy the part, so I tried to buy an APE unit - $51 plus shipping costs, compare that to my price! They didn't list one and didn't bother getting back with me, so with some goading on by the Zephyr Zone guys, I made one for it - and four or five extra. I also considered the price for the average rider. If it was about the money I'd be about five to ten bucks less than APE, but it was more about helping people who were in the position I was back then. I didn't intend to do this, but it happened so I keep on going. The riders at the Zephyr Zone and the Yahoo KLX650 group really supported the project and got me going. TNC contacted me about doing the KLX250 and with his help it got done. It wasn't as straight forward as the 650 or those on the in-line fours. But with some trig and some CAD, it got done and the first is still working for TNC. Then the Superhawk/Firestorm riders, after a rider contacted me about doing them for those bikes. The reputation is growing in the CBR riders and the other Kawasaki riders too.
It's your bike, it's your call, but think about the mechanical facts involved before doing so. Go at it "eyes wide open". In this case quiet isn't the purpose, proper cam drive adjustment is. Kind of like valves. You can make the quiet, but you can also make them too tight. Same thing here. Both the "one click" method and jamming the plunger are bad mechanically speaking. The ramp tooth pitch on the adjuster is probably near one millimeter so if the click takes slightly over half a tooth pitch that is like turning a manual tensioner about a half turn too tight. The only way to turn a manual tensioner half a turn too tight is to do it intentionally. The directions say finger tighten all the play out while turning over the engine, then BACK OFF 1/8-1/6 turn. You actually allow a few thousandths of play when cold to compensate for thermal expansion when the engine works up to full operating teimperature. With those other methods you are actually way overtightening the drive WHEN COLD, now think what happens as everything heats up and expands... remember those cams running in that thin film of oil in that head?
By the way, if anyone ever needs to ask me a question my phone number is on the web site and I can be reached by email or PM here. I enjoy talking with people on bikes. In fact I probably drone on too much. For me, that is some of the enjoyment of doing this whole thing. I actually helped one Eliminator rider real-time, guiding him through the adjustment process ON THE PHONE! We even did the fine tuning. He hung up, went for a ride, then called me again and we went through the fine tuning process. But more and more I'm thinking the cold set method is adequate. The fine tuning rarely is more than a few thousandths difference in bolt movement.
Now from the money stand point - a manual tensioner is $33 plus shipping and can be easily installed and adjusted within about a half hour without tearing into the engine. That slider inside the engine that will wear faster with the "one click" method is probably more than that and is an invasive repair. Then too, consider that putting excess tension on the cam drive will pull the cams down tighter in the head. If by some chance you break that thin film of oil enough to have metal to metal contact with the cam against the plain bearing surface machined in the head, you risk a cam siezure. This can ruin a very VERY expensive head and be very VERY expensive to repair.
Now, it isn't about selling you a cam chain tensioner. Fact is if that "one click" method had been presented to me back in 2000 when I had to do the top end of my KLX650 due to tensioner failure that ruined cam chains, I would have turned it down and converted my failed OEM tensioner manual just like I did anyway. Having a fair amount of mechanical experience, a mechanical engineering related technology degree, working as a quality tech/engineer in a cutting tool company and for an earth moving equipment company, I knew putting excess pressure on any chain drive system is a path way to damage. If it wasn't, the motorcycle manufacturer would put a whole lot stronger spring in there to force it in place and hold it there. I knew there had to be a way to adjust it better than the OEM part and a discussion and some brain storming brought up the suggestion of the manual unit from one of the guys that drag raced and used them on the drag bike. Over 30,000 miles and 4 adjustments later (new chains seating in) it's still working great.
When I started making these things my goal was to be able to put a quality part in a rider's hands at a price that made it a better deal than trying to make one themselves and one that was pretty much in everyone's reach rather easily. Than and not everyone has the time, skills, materials, equipment, or desire to do the work. Honestly, I didn't at the time.
I didn't have the desire, when the Zephyr tensioner was junk. I wanted to just buy the part, so I tried to buy an APE unit - $51 plus shipping costs, compare that to my price! They didn't list one and didn't bother getting back with me, so with some goading on by the Zephyr Zone guys, I made one for it - and four or five extra. I also considered the price for the average rider. If it was about the money I'd be about five to ten bucks less than APE, but it was more about helping people who were in the position I was back then. I didn't intend to do this, but it happened so I keep on going. The riders at the Zephyr Zone and the Yahoo KLX650 group really supported the project and got me going. TNC contacted me about doing the KLX250 and with his help it got done. It wasn't as straight forward as the 650 or those on the in-line fours. But with some trig and some CAD, it got done and the first is still working for TNC. Then the Superhawk/Firestorm riders, after a rider contacted me about doing them for those bikes. The reputation is growing in the CBR riders and the other Kawasaki riders too.
It's your bike, it's your call, but think about the mechanical facts involved before doing so. Go at it "eyes wide open". In this case quiet isn't the purpose, proper cam drive adjustment is. Kind of like valves. You can make the quiet, but you can also make them too tight. Same thing here. Both the "one click" method and jamming the plunger are bad mechanically speaking. The ramp tooth pitch on the adjuster is probably near one millimeter so if the click takes slightly over half a tooth pitch that is like turning a manual tensioner about a half turn too tight. The only way to turn a manual tensioner half a turn too tight is to do it intentionally. The directions say finger tighten all the play out while turning over the engine, then BACK OFF 1/8-1/6 turn. You actually allow a few thousandths of play when cold to compensate for thermal expansion when the engine works up to full operating teimperature. With those other methods you are actually way overtightening the drive WHEN COLD, now think what happens as everything heats up and expands... remember those cams running in that thin film of oil in that head?
By the way, if anyone ever needs to ask me a question my phone number is on the web site and I can be reached by email or PM here. I enjoy talking with people on bikes. In fact I probably drone on too much. For me, that is some of the enjoyment of doing this whole thing. I actually helped one Eliminator rider real-time, guiding him through the adjustment process ON THE PHONE! We even did the fine tuning. He hung up, went for a ride, then called me again and we went through the fine tuning process. But more and more I'm thinking the cold set method is adequate. The fine tuning rarely is more than a few thousandths difference in bolt movement.
Last edited by klx678; Dec 23, 2011 at 11:08 PM.
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