Hole coming Out of Crankcase! Help! klx351sf
#11
07-10-2017, 03:21 PM
Looking at a pic like this on the internet makes it tough to make a decent call on what the problem is. OP, on your assessment that this problem is coming from the inside of the engine because of the way the hole appears, I'm not sure what I'm seeing in the pic verifies that absolutely.
The crater in the aluminum going from small to large as it exits the case is also how an impact crater from the outside could appear...kind of like a "pock mark" from a bullet striking a brick wall.
I'd think pressure from an internal failure like a bearing shelling out would do more damage resulting in visible crack(s) at the point of impact within. Yes, connecting rods will often poke a clean hole in an engine case/block, but that hole is usually catastrophic and obvious. I'm leaning toward an external strike for the moment.
Here's what I'd do. You indicate that the engine was still running. Clean that area with brake cleaner and apply some JB Weld or other appropriate epoxy repair to keep the oil retained. Run the engine. If there's a bearing shelled or something else catastrophic going on, you're going to hear some nasty noises, and your problem will indicate an engine case tear down.
Still, your description of something appearing to be "loose" or floating around at that hole that you can manipulate with a screwdriver is definitely concerning. However, there may be a gear or chain at this location, if as Brewster states, where the balancer system is located here. I haven't taken the time to study the balancer system location in our KLX, so I'm just throwing that out there. The KLR600/650 in rare instances had some catastrophic problems with tensioner chain slack in the balancer, but that probably doesn't apply here.
The crater in the aluminum going from small to large as it exits the case is also how an impact crater from the outside could appear...kind of like a "pock mark" from a bullet striking a brick wall.
I'd think pressure from an internal failure like a bearing shelling out would do more damage resulting in visible crack(s) at the point of impact within. Yes, connecting rods will often poke a clean hole in an engine case/block, but that hole is usually catastrophic and obvious. I'm leaning toward an external strike for the moment.
Here's what I'd do. You indicate that the engine was still running. Clean that area with brake cleaner and apply some JB Weld or other appropriate epoxy repair to keep the oil retained. Run the engine. If there's a bearing shelled or something else catastrophic going on, you're going to hear some nasty noises, and your problem will indicate an engine case tear down.
Still, your description of something appearing to be "loose" or floating around at that hole that you can manipulate with a screwdriver is definitely concerning. However, there may be a gear or chain at this location, if as Brewster states, where the balancer system is located here. I haven't taken the time to study the balancer system location in our KLX, so I'm just throwing that out there. The KLR600/650 in rare instances had some catastrophic problems with tensioner chain slack in the balancer, but that probably doesn't apply here.
Here is the hole with round object in it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4z4df69say...1038a.jpg?dl=0
Here is the round object that appears to be damaged.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/evlo8zsri1...71036.jpg?dl=0
Here is picture with small flathead screwdriver in the hole and object moved
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uclsox7fb7...1040b.jpg?dl=0
Here is picture with object moved and screwdriver out, showing the open hole
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eulyyrit07...1043b.jpg?dl=0
I'm not sure these pictures help or not. But i would also like to add that this bike is kinda a gas saving daily driver vehicle to work and back. Or i should say was. But not sure if that changes anyone suggestions on just patching it or opening it up. If i do patch it i might just use some duck tape to help the oil from spitting out, that way i can easily remove and inspect hole for more damage or not.
Anyways let me know what y'all think and give some ideas on what do you think the object could be? And why im able to move it?
#12
07-10-2017, 04:21 PM
That sure looks like a catastrophic bearing failure to me...although admittedly I have never seen one fail like that! In any case I'm betting you will be splitting that case open very soon one way or the other as that is not going to heal itself. Wow.
#13
07-10-2017, 05:41 PM
That is strange. Even if it runs ok, I would think if that ball (?) gets in the wrong place it is going to cause big problems. I see a lot of engine work for you, better clean off a big area in the garage or basement to keep the parts straight.
Or drill out the hole and go in after it with a magnet, then JB Weld, if it still runs your good to go?
Or drill out the hole and go in after it with a magnet, then JB Weld, if it still runs your good to go?
#14
07-10-2017, 11:17 PM
Hard to agrue that it was not struck from the outside, but has that ever happened before w/o running into something huge?
Damage from within would be my first guess yet you say seems to run OK?
i think I'd JB it closed and see whether or not it self- destructs. If you end up needing to repair the bottom end, I would buy a lowzmiles bottom end off ebay, seem to be several in the $300 range and move your 351 kit to the new bottom end.
My $0.02
Damage from within would be my first guess yet you say seems to run OK?
i think I'd JB it closed and see whether or not it self- destructs. If you end up needing to repair the bottom end, I would buy a lowzmiles bottom end off ebay, seem to be several in the $300 range and move your 351 kit to the new bottom end.
My $0.02
#15
07-13-2017, 12:38 PM
I have seen oil galleries drilled and then the open end plugged with a ball peened into the end of the hole. Could this be what that is? Can someone eyeball this on a stock undamaged bike?
Like this:
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Like this:
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#16
07-14-2017, 01:15 AM
Well I've started to tear it apart(does anyone want me to do a write up on engine removal) (and soon to be crankcase opened). i am running into more problems. Looks like there is some wear down at the balancer and gear on the crankcase right at where i believe the bearing has blown(look for pictures). And now for the bad news looks like 351 piston and cylinder are wearing(look for pictures). Not sure what to do with the cylinder not sure if it can be rehoned or if its toast. I might see what bill blue has to say. I have my 28k 250 piston and cylinder ( still seem to be in pretty good condition) im considering putting them back on.
Here is where the balancer is rubbing the crankcase.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ntof3b9xfj...icsay.jpg?dl=0
Here is pic of balancer gear rubbing crankcase.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vnh1gxiig...icsay.jpg?dl=0
Here is pictures of wearing cylinder on both sides
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mdps9nhdkp...icsay.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kybhu3z0an...icsay.jpg?dl=0
Here is where its wearing on piston on both sides
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fs7icjbpo9...icsay.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4mejr5ne9...icsay.jpg?dl=0
If the balancer is wobbling and rubbing the crankcase. Could that cause the piston to wear the cylinder like in the pictures? I would think that the balancer shouldn't have any affect on the piston but why else would i be getting wear like this? Or could the piston and cylinder be defective(it only has about 1500 miles on the 351)? Not sure what to think for now. Let me know what y'all think about this all.
Thanks
Here is where the balancer is rubbing the crankcase.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ntof3b9xfj...icsay.jpg?dl=0
Here is pic of balancer gear rubbing crankcase.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vnh1gxiig...icsay.jpg?dl=0
Here is pictures of wearing cylinder on both sides
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mdps9nhdkp...icsay.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kybhu3z0an...icsay.jpg?dl=0
Here is where its wearing on piston on both sides
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fs7icjbpo9...icsay.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4mejr5ne9...icsay.jpg?dl=0
If the balancer is wobbling and rubbing the crankcase. Could that cause the piston to wear the cylinder like in the pictures? I would think that the balancer shouldn't have any affect on the piston but why else would i be getting wear like this? Or could the piston and cylinder be defective(it only has about 1500 miles on the 351)? Not sure what to think for now. Let me know what y'all think about this all.
Thanks
Last edited by booshwaa1; 07-14-2017 at 01:27 AM.
#17
07-14-2017, 03:15 AM
The wear on the piston/cylinder is not on the side, I believe it is on the front/back. Wear like this is somewhat normal, although with only 1500 miles, I don't like the scoring, was it run without or low on oil?
I haven't cracked mine open, so I don't have anything to compare it too. That scoring looks similar to what I had on my 2 smokers, but they didn't have oil in the crankcase so it was kinda expected.
I'll let the real motorheads comment.
If it was me, I would put it back together once the bottom end is fixed, oil/grease the cylinder good and run it till it is shot. It should be good for 5K of fun, I don't know that what we are looking at isn't normal!
I haven't cracked mine open, so I don't have anything to compare it too. That scoring looks similar to what I had on my 2 smokers, but they didn't have oil in the crankcase so it was kinda expected.
I'll let the real motorheads comment.
If it was me, I would put it back together once the bottom end is fixed, oil/grease the cylinder good and run it till it is shot. It should be good for 5K of fun, I don't know that what we are looking at isn't normal!
Last edited by durielk; 07-14-2017 at 03:18 AM.
#18
07-14-2017, 01:41 PM
The wear on the piston/cylinder is not on the side, I believe it is on the front/back. Wear like this is somewhat normal, although with only 1500 miles, I don't like the scoring, was it run without or low on oil?
I haven't cracked mine open, so I don't have anything to compare it too. That scoring looks similar to what I had on my 2 smokers, but they didn't have oil in the crankcase so it was kinda expected.
I'll let the real motorheads comment.
If it was me, I would put it back together once the bottom end is fixed, oil/grease the cylinder good and run it till it is shot. It should be good for 5K of fun, I don't know that what we are looking at isn't normal!
I haven't cracked mine open, so I don't have anything to compare it too. That scoring looks similar to what I had on my 2 smokers, but they didn't have oil in the crankcase so it was kinda expected.
I'll let the real motorheads comment.
If it was me, I would put it back together once the bottom end is fixed, oil/grease the cylinder good and run it till it is shot. It should be good for 5K of fun, I don't know that what we are looking at isn't normal!
Thanks for the reply. I have made sure there has always been oil in the bike. And as for the wear on the cylinder, I'm not an expert but i think the cylinder needs to be perfect round and honed for the piston rings to seat properly. But I'm hoping your right. Hopefully some other people will help figure out if this is ok.
Thanks
#19
07-15-2017, 01:39 AM
Been There, Done That.
When my 351 developed a rod knock, I discovered the same type of wear. Bill and I believe that it's from the metal particles mixed into the oil. I kinda wish that Bill would spec a dry film coating on the piston skirt.
