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-   -   Removing Air Suction Valve System: WHY??? (https://www.kawasakiforums.com/forum/klx-250s-71/removing-air-suction-valve-system-why-42249/)

ol'klx-er 08-09-2014 02:36 AM

Count me in.

I realize that being in Canuckistan means a bump up in shipping.

klx678 08-09-2014 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by RockabillSlapMatt (Post 513507)
:confused: Seems more than reasonable to me. You could start out as such, then when people request a gasket with the kit just bump the price up to ~$20-$25. Some people have a hard time locating gaskets. :D


This is another one of those "how I would want it if I buy it" thing.

If I bought this thing I would want it all to be there to install, shorter bolts if needed and a gasket. It is more about a good deal for the rider than making a buck. That's why I asked about pricing. If it needs to be priced to fit the rider's pocket - what they would be willing to spend. That's why the tensioner is $36 instead of just undercutting the others by only a five spot. I'd rather make it so a bunch of riders get the value I would want versus maximizing profits.

I guess when it comes to bikes I'm a lousy business operator from the bottom line point of view.

RockabillSlapMatt 08-09-2014 09:44 PM

With shorter bolts and gasket and part I wouldnt pay more than $25 shipping included.

Around or over $30 its almost better the plug it up with rubber (from the consumer pov)

klx678 08-10-2014 01:19 AM


Originally Posted by RockabillSlapMatt (Post 513535)
With shorter bolts and gasket and part I wouldnt pay more than $25 shipping included.

Around or over $30 its almost better the plug it up with rubber (from the consumer pov)

As I said, I'm thinking under $20 shipped within the U.S. Probably have to see if I can get creative for Canada and the world. Maybe skip the bolts, they'd be easy enough to source, then it could be sent out with gasket in a regular envelope. I'll investigate that.

I love playing with new things, making the drawings and trying it out. I wish I could afford the time and money.

Just looked up the price, under $4 for an envelope containing a rigid object for Australia and the rest of the world excluding Canada and the US, both of which should be lower. It has to be less than $20 shipped.

RockabillSlapMatt 08-10-2014 02:17 AM


Originally Posted by klx678 (Post 513540)
As I said, I'm thinking under $20 shipped within the U.S. Probably have to see if I can get creative for Canada and the world. Maybe skip the bolts, they'd be easy enough to source, then it could be sent out with gasket in a regular envelope. I'll investigate that.

I love playing with new things, making the drawings and trying it out. I wish I could afford the time and money.

Just looked up the price, under $4 for an envelope containing a rigid object for Australia and the rest of the world excluding Canada and the US, both of which should be lower. It has to be less than $20 shipped.

Sounds like a plan! Looks like you're going to have to expand that website haha! :D

Nikolaj Lykke 08-10-2014 09:29 AM

I'd be very interested in a blockoff plate as well. I already have your tensioner and it is QUALITY :)

Also the thing about sourcing bolts locally is a good idea for us living in other countries. There is a 25% tax and a $30 flat fee on importing anything over $17 here. So if you could send it in an an envelope rather than a package, that would be awesome as there is lower chance of customs catching it then :D

It really sucks when you want relatively cheap items from the states, not only do you have to pay the shipping, but also all the ridiculous customs fees.

Moving to Germany next year, can't wait, everything will be cheaper.

klx678 08-10-2014 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by Nikolaj Lykke (Post 513547)
I'd be very interested in a blockoff plate as well. I already have your tensioner and it is QUALITY :)

Also the thing about sourcing bolts locally is a good idea for us living in other countries. There is a 25% tax and a $30 flat fee on importing anything over $17 here. So if you could send it in an an envelope rather than a package, that would be awesome as there is lower chance of customs catching it then :D

It really sucks when you want relatively cheap items from the states, not only do you have to pay the shipping, but also all the ridiculous customs fees.

Moving to Germany next year, can't wait, everything will be cheaper.


First, my prime question. The $17 limit, is that for the cost listed on the package? Not that I plan to put on lower values - legal penalties possible - but that would set a top limit for this item. I only list the part cost on the customs form, not including the shipping.

The bolts can actually be cut down to suit, grinding or filing the tip a bit to get it to thread in cleanly. I think you guys in Europe have one advantage when it comes to this - metric is the standard and that would be what would be most common to find, isn't it?

Nikolaj Lykke 08-10-2014 12:57 PM

Well its a bit more complicated than that. I also suspect it it be different from country to country, even within the EU. The numbers I gave above were my guestimates, I just checked the actual numbers, although they change a little bit depending on currency values. This is all for Denmark only. I know of a guy in Sweden who says he often orders big things such as motorcycle exhausts and whatnot from the US without customs bothering to tax it, but Danish authorities are very vigilant.

Anything costing $14 gets no tax, VAT or import fee's. Anything over does. That means if you buy something for $14 thats all you pay, but if it costs $14.5 it will cost $47 USD here.

Usually they look at what price is on the package and the receipt, but if there is no price or receipt they might hold the package until you provide proof or purchase or a receipt. They will also do this for undervalued packages if it seems to unrealistic. I.e. items that obviously cost more than listed. (They open and check).
The price taxed is the FULL price so item + shipping, but if shipping is listed as free, they dont care about it in my experience. So better price the item higher and have no shipping costs because they will tax it anyway.

Also, mostly they look at packages. I am not even sure they check envelopes. A small envelope with the receipt inside would probably slip through easily while still being legal? Im not sure what the laws are on your side.

Usually the bigger your package is, the higher the chance of them checking it. (Ok that sounds ridiculous now that I read it out loud. :D )

As for the bolts. Yes, metric is the standard here and I think the most common type should be easily sourcable.

klx678 08-10-2014 01:47 PM

That helps me. The USPS customs form only lists the value of the contents. The postage cost is on the stamp they use, not on the customs form.

I don't raise shipping costs, they are exactly what I pay. The only place I've ever done anything like that is on ebay to cover the fees.

In a side note, you'd think with my name showing on an ebay listing the person might actually look up the part and find my site. Many don't, it costs them up to $7 more, plus I pay another $2 for the ebay fees. We would both save money if they just did a search on Krieger tensioners or the like. I always do a search if I can identify a name on an item to see if there is a better direct deal or just for reviews on the product. Oh well...

Big plus. Now my goal is $14!

Nikolaj Lykke 08-10-2014 02:22 PM

I just tried to see if I could find some information about shipping into the UK to see how their rules compare to Danish rules but I cant really find anything good. There is an online customs calculator for Denmark, but I cant seem to find one for the UK.

And I totally agree with your ebay thing. I always try to find out if the vendor has their own page and then go through that if its cheaper.

I'm pretty sure VAT is the same og very similar most places in Europe, but I am not so sure about the flat fee on small items. The thing is, its our national postal service that charges this flat fee that makes buying small/cheap items so expensive. so maybe if you use a private company that ships directly from USA to Europe without going through national postal services it might be better

UPS, DHL or something might be able to do it cheaper? Those are represented here as well.

klx678 08-10-2014 11:49 PM


Originally Posted by Nikolaj Lykke (Post 513555)
I just tried to see if I could find some information about shipping into the UK to see how their rules compare to Danish rules but I cant really find anything good. There is an online customs calculator for Denmark, but I cant seem to find one for the UK.

And I totally agree with your ebay thing. I always try to find out if the vendor has their own page and then go through that if its cheaper.

I'm pretty sure VAT is the same og very similar most places in Europe, but I am not so sure about the flat fee on small items. The thing is, its our national postal service that charges this flat fee that makes buying small/cheap items so expensive. so maybe if you use a private company that ships directly from USA to Europe without going through national postal services it might be better

UPS, DHL or something might be able to do it cheaper? Those are represented here as well.

They are about three times the price on any shipping outside the U.S., higher priced in the U.S. too.

RaeRae36 05-26-2021 04:13 AM


Originally Posted by TNC (Post 513285)
No, this basic design has been on Kawasakis at least since about 1979 before any introduction of a cat converter. I was working part time as a mechanic at a Kawasaki shop, and people would rejet their Kawasaki with this air injection system after installing an aftermarket pipe or muffler without disabling the system. The chromed pipes turned a dark blue for about 12" at the header pipe. Pretty ugly.:D

My boyfriends 2001 kawasaki ninja zx6r runs great until he gets up speed and it acts like it loses power and its like it shuts out and dont wanna go. any suggestions on this?

TNC 05-26-2021 01:35 PM


Originally Posted by RaeRae36 (Post 553066)
My boyfriends 2001 kawasaki ninja zx6r runs great until he gets up speed and it acts like it loses power and its like it shuts out and dont wanna go. any suggestions on this?

Sorry...my crystal ball internet diagnostic powers from this distance are no help here.

tooter 05-26-2021 03:58 PM

Zombie thread... :p

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.kaw...ee799ebc62.png



tooter 06-01-2021 11:18 PM

No one else is here so I may as well keep the thread alive..... :)

All the smog equipment has been removed The engine is less cluttered and it knocked off another couple of pounds. Curb weight is 291 including the 3 pound rack.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.kaw...b38fbeb4c9.jpg

This stuff is contraband in the US so I ordered it from Greece. The main component is the block off plate. It fits perfectly. It also includes an electrical plug with a resister built into it to fool the trouble light.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.kaw...8422716a6d.jpg

Flounder Hounder 06-14-2021 02:40 AM

Tooter did you see any performance increase with removing the smog stuff? What did you do about the fuel injection on your bike? It looks great!

tooter 06-14-2021 05:16 AM


Originally Posted by Flounder Hounder (Post 553175)
Tooter did you see any performance increase with removing the smog stuff? What did you do about the fuel injection on your bike? It looks great!

None that I can tell. The stock fuel injection is still there and hasn't been touched.
I'm getting the bike dyno tested this week and will post the results.

For comparison, here is a dyno test of a bone stock 2021 KLX300.


23.4 HP @ 8,100 RPM
15.4 TQ @ 8,000 RPM


My bike is also totally stock except an exhaust. There is no fuel tuner or any air box mods.



klx678 06-14-2021 11:58 AM


Originally Posted by Flounder Hounder (Post 553175)
Tooter did you see any performance increase with removing the smog stuff? What did you do about the fuel injection on your bike? It looks great!

All the PAIR valve does is allow fresh air into the exhaust port going to the header to burn off unburned fuel mix to eliminate some pollution. Here is a link to a video on the "pair" valve, the subject of power comes up at 4:50 in Tech Talk:
. He also covers decel popping or crackle and what happens when the additional unburned gas gets to the cat convertor if still using the stock exhaust. So in that case removal of the PAIR can actually reduce performance and possibly cause damage eventually in the catalytic convertor in the stock exhaust.

Here's the R-rated version of the PAIR valve explanation for some entertainment


So the reality - no performance gain and less than 0.5% drop in weight, less than one half a percent in weight.

The really interesting part is when someone removes the PAIR valve set up then goes and wraps the exhaust header. They remove one source to add heat to the exhaust, which raises exhaust gas velocity, reducing weight by about 0.5%, then adds exhaust wrap which is meant to hold heat in the exhaust to maintain exhaust gas velocity, adding around 0.5% to the weight. Go figure...

Really, three hoses and one plastic valve that is almost unnoticeable isn't much of a big deal. Now if the valve hung out the side like some pollution stuff did on the Honda XR650L that would be a different story. So there isn't much of any reason to remove it other than "because I can".

tooter 06-14-2021 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by klx678 (Post 553177)
All the PAIR valve does is allow fresh air into the exhaust port going to the header to burn off unburned fuel mix to eliminate some pollution. Here is a link to a video on the "pair" valve, the subject of power comes up at 4:50 in Tech Talk: PAIR Valve Systems Explained . He also covers decel popping or crackle and what happens when the additional unburned gas gets to the cat convertor if still using the stock exhaust. So in that case removal of the PAIR can actually reduce performance and possibly cause damage eventually in the catalytic convertor in the stock exhaust.

Here's the R-rated version of the PAIR valve explanation for some entertainment click here

So the reality - no performance gain and less than 0.5% drop in weight, less than one half a percent in weight.

The really interesting part is when someone removes the PAIR valve set up then goes and wraps the exhaust header. They remove one source to add heat to the exhaust, which raises exhaust gas velocity, reducing weight by about 0.5%, then adds exhaust wrap which is meant to hold heat in the exhaust to maintain exhaust gas velocity, adding around 0.5% to the weight. Go figure...

Really, three hoses and one plastic valve that is almost unnoticeable isn't much of a big deal. Now if the valve hung out the side like some pollution stuff did on the Honda XR650L that would be a different story. So there isn't much of any reason to remove it other than "because I can".

No cat, so no problem. I did it as part of a weight reduction project. Pair saved 2 pounds. Exhaust saved 6.25 pounds. Do enough little things and it starts to matter.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.kaw...d3c075c4a3.jpg

Won't be wrapping the exhaust. It's ugly and adds weight. ;)

klx678 06-14-2021 06:42 PM

If you really want to save weight I have a good tip, may save up to 4 lb. Check the bead on your rims, odds are the profile is a tubeless profile. If so, then seal the spokes either with a do-it-yourself method as lots have or get one of the kits - no tubes, no tube weight. I believe the rims used on the 250/300 are MT rims, both dual sport and SM. Definitely worth a look. BMW's tire tech points out that the MT and MT2 rims are tubeless bead design click here,

The point about the PAIR valve is that there is no gain other than maybe a pound in weight, which is irrelevant to 99% of the KLX riders. Five pounds, maybe a big deal. Plus if they do not delete the cat convertor they risk problems there. Besides, the message was to the rider considering it and asking about performance benefit, of which there is nearly none what so ever. It's like painting rims, no benefit other than looks and preferences.

tooter 06-14-2021 08:22 PM


Originally Posted by klx678 (Post 553182)
If you really want to save weight I have a good tip, may save up to 4 lb. Check the bead on your rims, odds are the profile is a tubeless profile. If so, then seal the spokes either with a do-it-yourself method as lots have or get one of the kits - no tubes, no tube weight. I believe the rims used on the 250/300 are MT rims, both dual sport and SM. Definitely worth a look. BMW's tire tech points out that the MT and MT2 rims are tubeless bead design click here,

The point about the PAIR valve is that there is no gain other than maybe a pound in weight, which is irrelevant to 99% of the KLX riders. Five pounds, maybe a big deal. Plus if they do not delete the cat convertor they risk problems there. Besides, the message was to the rider considering it and asking about performance benefit, of which there is nearly none what so ever. It's like painting rims, no benefit other than looks and preferences.

That's the beauty of motorcycles... :)
We each enjoy the same freedom to modify them to suit our own individual tastes.

klx678 06-15-2021 12:34 AM

Do check on the ability to go tubeless. I am not kidding. It will cut around 2 lb/tube and the weight is also rotating mass. It just struck me while writing the reply.

This video shows both kinds of rims, the WM, which should be tube only (although some people are making them tubeless, I wouldn't) and the rear rim, which is an MT type with the tubeless bead profile.


tooter 06-15-2021 01:41 AM


Originally Posted by klx678 (Post 553184)
Do check on the ability to go tubeless. I am not kidding. It will cut around 2 lb/tube and the weight is also rotating mass. It just struck me while writing the reply.

This video shows both kinds of rims, the WM, which should be tube only (although some people are making them tubeless, I wouldn't) and the rear rim, which is an MT type with the tubeless bead profile.

https://youtu.be/YPG8buNvTCc

Thanks. :)

I'll definitely look into going tubeless when the rear tire wears out.

The general rule is one pound of rotating weight has the effect on performance equivalent to five to ten pounds of static weight.

klx678 06-15-2021 11:41 AM

It just struck me at that point. I did a quick search and a 120-17 tube weighs like 3 lb, so you're seriously looking at knocking 6 lb off the bike plus the rotating mass. That is definitely worth looking at! Half way makes it worth considering on the rear tire of the dual sport... be kind of good to be able to plug a tire quickly on the trail. I think the front rim on them may not have the tubeless bead.

tooter 06-15-2021 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by klx678 (Post 553187)
It just struck me at that point. I did a quick search and a 120-17 tube weighs like 3 lb, so you're seriously looking at knocking 6 lb off the bike plus the rotating mass. That is definitely worth looking at! Half way makes it worth considering on the rear tire of the dual sport... be kind of good to be able to plug a tire quickly on the trail. I think the front rim on them may not have the tubeless bead.

I'll find out in about 6,000 miles. :)

I use my bike every day in my business so that won't take long.

klx678 06-15-2021 05:04 PM

I look forward to what you find. It would be a great change in weight for sure.


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