Sure.

It looks to me like you're either looking to be difficult (obstinate), or don't know what you're talking about (obtuse).
Just so I don't have to answer you again, when I read stuff like this

It leads me to believe that you have no practical experience with FI. In that context, your attempt at humour was rendered inconsp icuous.

 

Conversely, reading a post like this leads me to believe that you have no actual rebuttal.

Good day sir.

 

 

Not "an" engine. An engine on a street legal vehicle. Okay let's compare some carb vs. FI vehicles sold today. Okay.. uh wait, they don' t sell any cars with carbs any more!!! I wonder why that is?

Because they'd make a TON less power with a carb in order to pass emissions because a carb is not a precise fuel metering instrument.

Let's see a late '80's 350 Chevy produced about 165HP and a modern one about double that. So 80HP was a CONSERVATIVE rating for your 4runner.

Seriously though there is a reason carbs were dumped in autos long ago and as emissions tighten on bikes the same will eventually happen. AND, just like with cars, there will be some teething but it will be a good thing.

- Mark

 

I don't own a 4runner, you are thinking of someone else in this thread.

Also, you are still comparing 30 year old tech to modern.

Emissions laws are a complete joke anyway, recirculating air into the combustion chamber only dilutes the amount of "pollution" emited. The same amount of crap is still coming out the tailpipe, its only being spread over a larger volume of air.

Don't confuse my posts as some kind of hatred of FI, i just believe that its not the magic that people seem to think it is.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

Actually air injection was a crude attempt to complete combustion by injecting fresh air into the hot exhaust gasses, thus lowering unburned hydrocarbons exiting the tailpipe. I'm a Mechanical Engineer and although at times it seems like engineers are stupid (that's the marketing guys! Just kidding but you know what I mean) they are not. Air injection was yet another attemt to meet emissions by getting around the "crudeness" of the carb.

Okay, all I was stating is that it would be nice to have a fast FI KLX 250 right off the shelf. I have a feeling most buyers would prefer 25-28HP off the shelf rather than a bunch of tweaking to go from 18HP to 21HP or so. And I'm not talking about increasing displacement with those numbers. They are based on the Yami's stock numbers and what I've seen of modded Kawi's around here.

Note that I said "most" buyers.

- Mark

 

Air injection is still very much alive in many FI applications. Just check out how the Kawi "Kleen air" system works on its FI bikes.


It would be nice to have a KLX off the shelf with 25 HP, but that is simply not going to happen with the current engine design even with FI. FI might be able to provide a BHP or two but the engine is simply to old to make much power and still comply with the ridiculous emissions laws. The WR250 is probably a brand new design or one based off pretty recent tech while the development of the KLX pretty much ended about 12 years ago.

Any kind of performace increase in the KLX is going to cost money, either out of your pocket later or on the showroom floor.

 

Sadly you are probably correct. But a guy can still hope right? You know. You open the Kawi website and see a blurb about the new KLX250s/sf with fuel injection and a new level of performance. They you hit a link to the first review and they're talking about how it's faster than the Yami. Then I wake up.

 

Now please correct me if I'm wrong, but perhaps when we are talking about the old "air injection" on 70's/80's model cars, and the kleen air injection on a Kawasaki, aren't we talking about 2 different types of systems?

The air injection involved in those first attempts at emission control involved a smog pump that recirculated some exhaust gas into the combustion chamber. This accomplished some elements that I won't go into to achieve less tailpipe emissions, but it was a huge negative for performance.

The kleen air system on a Kawasaki injects fresh air into the exhaust downstream from the head to aid in a post combustion burn that is totally apart from the normal combustion process. This system does nothing or very close to nothing to diminish power or performance.

 

You are correct in its operation, it has zero impact on performance that i know of. I was simply trying to make the point that even with FI and all its precise fuel metering, "tricks" are still required to comply with emissions. The exact same system was used on the carbed bikes such as mine so i am left to wonder how much progress has really been made.