why does crf100 have more snap than my 250?
#11
06-17-2016, 01:25 AM
CV carb lag is way over-rated. They've been using CV carbs on Harleys for years. The spongy feel is due to a combination of things on the KLX as mentioned above - cam timing, angles, and duration likely have a good bit to do with it also.
Im serious guys, a piped, jetted Kawasaki Mojave feels NOTHING like a KLX--and a Mojave is one of the smallest and oldest sport quads ever produced. Its not a drag bike to be certain, but it has bottom end SNAP and torque, and still has a great top end. All this despite the CV carb.
If you've ever pulled the boot and watched a CV carb in action, you can see the slide open extremely quickly when you rap it-- it might lag 1 or 2 tenths of a second behind a manual slide carb. Its nothing like what many people (who have not watched it) think it is. The carb is not whats causing this bike to feel like it does.
If I can EVER get my bike running properly again I will probably do the MCM just because it brings the cam timing closer to the Mojave's. If does anything at all to help produce a similar powerband to the Mojave Im all for it.
Im serious guys, a piped, jetted Kawasaki Mojave feels NOTHING like a KLX--and a Mojave is one of the smallest and oldest sport quads ever produced. Its not a drag bike to be certain, but it has bottom end SNAP and torque, and still has a great top end. All this despite the CV carb.
If you've ever pulled the boot and watched a CV carb in action, you can see the slide open extremely quickly when you rap it-- it might lag 1 or 2 tenths of a second behind a manual slide carb. Its nothing like what many people (who have not watched it) think it is. The carb is not whats causing this bike to feel like it does.
If I can EVER get my bike running properly again I will probably do the MCM just because it brings the cam timing closer to the Mojave's. If does anything at all to help produce a similar powerband to the Mojave Im all for it.
Last edited by Josh128; 06-17-2016 at 01:28 AM.
#12
06-17-2016, 05:58 AM
"I don't think I buy this. I don't think the same rider would fall 500% more on the same trail if he/she was on a KTM."
Bear in mind the 100% import tax, so your $4000 KLX becomes an $8000 bike, and you can double the cost of a KTM too. As such KTMs are rare, but every time we ride and there's someone on a KTM they do down, repeatedly.
With one guy it's clear the bike is too tall for him, as he's not overly tall and riding a 450 6 Days, but even the guys on 250s, they hit the throttle and slide out, again and again.
Not always intentionally do they open the throttle, sometimes it's just because they hit a bump and "whisky throttled".
There's one group I'm actually easing away from, as they seem to be getting more and more into speed and extreme climbs and obstacles, rather than just trail riding for fun. But I see the same there for hill climbs, the KTMs are plenty capable - BUT you have to really attack the hill at high speed.
Hit it at high revs and maintain high speed, they're great and will do things the KLX 150 and 250s cannot. However the moment they slow down, try to get around something, then they open the throttle again... well then either they're stuck there wheelspinning or they're off the bike, dropped.
The same hill, you'll then see someone, possibly me, chugging up there easily on a little 150, with a big silly grin
KTMS, Huskys, Betas and the like, they are a different animal. If you have high skills and/or are racing, they're great. If you want adventure rides and a 2 wheel Jeep to go places, they're not so good.
My point is I regularly ride with groups of 20 or so riders, on an assortment of bikes, although the KLXs are very popular, and the KLX250 is renowned for it's ability to find traction where other bikes can't. A major part of that is the relatively smooth delivery of power.
If you were to drastically increase the throttle response you'd have a bike arguably more fun on the road or race track, but actually LESS effective on the trail.
Let me try dropbox... If it works, these are the guys I often ride with. I'm the one white guy:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/as1j56t1y1...G1604.jpg?dl=0
These are the kind of trails:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1oe0hp3yd2...G1616.jpg?dl=0
See the steepness of the hills? I recall how we laughed at the 2 guys on mega-expensive KTMs, who couldn't get up these. We had to drag and push them, which is NOT fun.
The guy on the KLR650 had to turn around and go home
Back then I was riding a Honda MTX 2 stroke, with a claimed 30 BHP, and I struggled too. I was either wheelspinning with no grip or flipping over, with too much grip and too hard a power delivery.
You know the bikes that made it up there the easiest?
Some 200cc air-cooled Chinese bikes, using engines from the Suzuki DR200, the KLX150s and the KLX250s. All 4 strokes.
Also, none of the 4 strokes overheated, whereas my MTX boiled its radiator twice and a Suzuki TS100 seized itself solid and had to be rescued later.
I must admit i find it a little strange that people buy a KLX250, join a KLX250 enthusiasts forum, and then complain they don't like the characteristics of the KLX250?
I'm actually a little sheepish and embarrassed to have the 250, as it's such a legend around here, with people pulling off incredible journeys on them. For example during monsoon season when some villages get cut off from landslides, and no 4x4 can get through? From the mists, covered in mud, comes the guy on the KLX250... I'm 50 this month and consider myself a casual rider, certainly no hot-shot or stunt rider. I know when I had the MTX the guys would tease and ask "So why is a gentle rider like you on such a bike? You should get a KLX150 and sell me your MTX...."
Turning up at the next ride on a brand new KLX250, they're gonna tease me ragged, because they know the bike is so much more capable than I am - and no offense, but off-road I can probably outride many of this forum's members.
In fact that probably sums up what I'm rambling on about... until you can out-ride a KLX250's abilities, on the kind of terrain and ride it's designed for, perhaps it's best to understand the bike first, rather than presuming there's something wrong with it?
Kawasaki are plenty capable of creating a sharp, snappy machine with gobs of power - see the KX - whereas the KLX is built for a different purpose. And it's very, very good at it.
Peace.
Last edited by Bigs; 06-17-2016 at 09:23 AM.
#13
06-17-2016, 03:41 PM
Check out the trail going up the next mountain side ! That's a climb!
Having so many different bikes, I totally get what your saying about the ease at which one will do a section while other "superior" bikes will struggle. Heck, my last ride (Rocky Ridge for those in N. Texas) had me struggling to get my daughters' KTM105SX up a climb the KLX made with ease. It's a trail/climb I've been making for decades out there - very technical, requiring finesse and smooth power delivery.. The KTM was waay too "explosive" to keep the line you have to use to get up..
Having so many different bikes, I totally get what your saying about the ease at which one will do a section while other "superior" bikes will struggle. Heck, my last ride (Rocky Ridge for those in N. Texas) had me struggling to get my daughters' KTM105SX up a climb the KLX made with ease. It's a trail/climb I've been making for decades out there - very technical, requiring finesse and smooth power delivery.. The KTM was waay too "explosive" to keep the line you have to use to get up..
#14
06-17-2016, 04:06 PM
Yep, that's exactly it; that explosive snap is great in a race, but a positive liability in the real world.
We also ride in places where there's a sheer drop at one or both sides. Peaky powerbands or sudden squirts are NOT your friend up there!
The biggest problem I'm finding with the KLX is over-tall gearing, and overly tall in general. I'm 5'9" and I could do with lowering this thing a couple of inches. Lowering kits are available, so I'll have to sort something out later.
There's plenty to criticize about Kawasaki as a company and the KLX in particular, but the tractable power delivery is one of its strengths, not a weakness.
We also ride in places where there's a sheer drop at one or both sides. Peaky powerbands or sudden squirts are NOT your friend up there!
The biggest problem I'm finding with the KLX is over-tall gearing, and overly tall in general. I'm 5'9" and I could do with lowering this thing a couple of inches. Lowering kits are available, so I'll have to sort something out later.
There's plenty to criticize about Kawasaki as a company and the KLX in particular, but the tractable power delivery is one of its strengths, not a weakness.
#15
06-17-2016, 06:19 PM
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 57
That terrain is beautiful. The peaks in the distance poking through the clouds. That climb!
I agree with your well made points. I was just shocked that a 100cc 4 stroke could feel such much snappier than my 250. I had just come home from tight trail riding where I was having to get up and over fallen trees. In these trail riding situations, being able to lighten the front end with a crack of the throttle would be beneficial. especially after a couple of hours of riding.
Forgive me for wanting more from my bike. I think you'll find more modded klx250s than bone stock bikes. I think I'm in the majority.
More importantly, when are you going to invite me to where ever those pictures are from to ride with you?
I agree with your well made points. I was just shocked that a 100cc 4 stroke could feel such much snappier than my 250. I had just come home from tight trail riding where I was having to get up and over fallen trees. In these trail riding situations, being able to lighten the front end with a crack of the throttle would be beneficial. especially after a couple of hours of riding.
Forgive me for wanting more from my bike. I think you'll find more modded klx250s than bone stock bikes. I think I'm in the majority.
More importantly, when are you going to invite me to where ever those pictures are from to ride with you?
#16
06-17-2016, 06:32 PM
From everything I've ever read here, the Mikuni TM36-68 slide carb is the biggest improvement short of a 351 kit that can be done on the KLX. May be the accelerator pump, but it seems the CVs are one of the first things any performance based hop ups for racing on tracks, dirt and paved if within the rules, is done.
Not a cheap mod, but serious results.
Not a cheap mod, but serious results.
#17
06-17-2016, 06:36 PM
Maybe not the same rider, but I see it all the time here, KTM riders falling.
Bear in mind the 100% import tax, so your $4000 KLX becomes an $8000 bike, and you can double the cost of a KTM too. As such KTMs are rare, but every time we ride and there's someone on a KTM they do down, repeatedly.
With one guy it's clear the bike is too tall for him, as he's not overly tall and riding a 450 6 Days, but even the guys on 250s, they hit the throttle and slide out, again and again.
Not always intentionally do they open the throttle, sometimes it's just because they hit a bump and "whisky throttled".
There's one group I'm actually easing away from, as they seem to be getting more and more into speed and extreme climbs and obstacles, rather than just trail riding for fun. But I see the same there for hill climbs, the KTMs are plenty capable - BUT you have to really attack the hill at high speed.
Hit it at high revs and maintain high speed, they're great and will do things the KLX 150 and 250s cannot. However the moment they slow down, try to get around something, then they open the throttle again... well then either they're stuck there wheelspinning or they're off the bike, dropped.
The same hill, you'll then see someone, possibly me, chugging up there easily on a little 150, with a big silly grin
KTMS, Huskys, Betas and the like, they are a different animal. If you have high skills and/or are racing, they're great. If you want adventure rides and a 2 wheel Jeep to go places, they're not so good.
My point is I regularly ride with groups of 20 or so riders, on an assortment of bikes, although the KLXs are very popular, and the KLX250 is renowned for it's ability to find traction where other bikes can't. A major part of that is the relatively smooth delivery of power.
If you were to drastically increase the throttle response you'd have a bike arguably more fun on the road or race track, but actually LESS effective on the trail.
Let me try dropbox... If it works, these are the guys I often ride with. I'm the one white guy:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/as1j56t1y1...G1604.jpg?dl=0
These are the kind of trails:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1oe0hp3yd2...G1616.jpg?dl=0
See the steepness of the hills? I recall how we laughed at the 2 guys on mega-expensive KTMs, who couldn't get up these. We had to drag and push them, which is NOT fun.
The guy on the KLR650 had to turn around and go home
Back then I was riding a Honda MTX 2 stroke, with a claimed 30 BHP, and I struggled too. I was either wheelspinning with no grip or flipping over, with too much grip and too hard a power delivery.
You know the bikes that made it up there the easiest?
Some 200cc air-cooled Chinese bikes, using engines from the Suzuki DR200, the KLX150s and the KLX250s. All 4 strokes.
Also, none of the 4 strokes overheated, whereas my MTX boiled its radiator twice and a Suzuki TS100 seized itself solid and had to be rescued later.
I must admit i find it a little strange that people buy a KLX250, join a KLX250 enthusiasts forum, and then complain they don't like the characteristics of the KLX250?
I'm actually a little sheepish and embarrassed to have the 250, as it's such a legend around here, with people pulling off incredible journeys on them. For example during monsoon season when some villages get cut off from landslides, and no 4x4 can get through? From the mists, covered in mud, comes the guy on the KLX250... I'm 50 this month and consider myself a casual rider, certainly no hot-shot or stunt rider. I know when I had the MTX the guys would tease and ask "So why is a gentle rider like you on such a bike? You should get a KLX150 and sell me your MTX...."
Turning up at the next ride on a brand new KLX250, they're gonna tease me ragged, because they know the bike is so much more capable than I am - and no offense, but off-road I can probably outride many of this forum's members.
In fact that probably sums up what I'm rambling on about... until you can out-ride a KLX250's abilities, on the kind of terrain and ride it's designed for, perhaps it's best to understand the bike first, rather than presuming there's something wrong with it?
Kawasaki are plenty capable of creating a sharp, snappy machine with gobs of power - see the KX - whereas the KLX is built for a different purpose. And it's very, very good at it.
Peace.
Bear in mind the 100% import tax, so your $4000 KLX becomes an $8000 bike, and you can double the cost of a KTM too. As such KTMs are rare, but every time we ride and there's someone on a KTM they do down, repeatedly.
With one guy it's clear the bike is too tall for him, as he's not overly tall and riding a 450 6 Days, but even the guys on 250s, they hit the throttle and slide out, again and again.
Not always intentionally do they open the throttle, sometimes it's just because they hit a bump and "whisky throttled".
There's one group I'm actually easing away from, as they seem to be getting more and more into speed and extreme climbs and obstacles, rather than just trail riding for fun. But I see the same there for hill climbs, the KTMs are plenty capable - BUT you have to really attack the hill at high speed.
Hit it at high revs and maintain high speed, they're great and will do things the KLX 150 and 250s cannot. However the moment they slow down, try to get around something, then they open the throttle again... well then either they're stuck there wheelspinning or they're off the bike, dropped.
The same hill, you'll then see someone, possibly me, chugging up there easily on a little 150, with a big silly grin
KTMS, Huskys, Betas and the like, they are a different animal. If you have high skills and/or are racing, they're great. If you want adventure rides and a 2 wheel Jeep to go places, they're not so good.
My point is I regularly ride with groups of 20 or so riders, on an assortment of bikes, although the KLXs are very popular, and the KLX250 is renowned for it's ability to find traction where other bikes can't. A major part of that is the relatively smooth delivery of power.
If you were to drastically increase the throttle response you'd have a bike arguably more fun on the road or race track, but actually LESS effective on the trail.
Let me try dropbox... If it works, these are the guys I often ride with. I'm the one white guy:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/as1j56t1y1...G1604.jpg?dl=0
These are the kind of trails:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1oe0hp3yd2...G1616.jpg?dl=0
See the steepness of the hills? I recall how we laughed at the 2 guys on mega-expensive KTMs, who couldn't get up these. We had to drag and push them, which is NOT fun.
The guy on the KLR650 had to turn around and go home
Back then I was riding a Honda MTX 2 stroke, with a claimed 30 BHP, and I struggled too. I was either wheelspinning with no grip or flipping over, with too much grip and too hard a power delivery.
You know the bikes that made it up there the easiest?
Some 200cc air-cooled Chinese bikes, using engines from the Suzuki DR200, the KLX150s and the KLX250s. All 4 strokes.
Also, none of the 4 strokes overheated, whereas my MTX boiled its radiator twice and a Suzuki TS100 seized itself solid and had to be rescued later.
I must admit i find it a little strange that people buy a KLX250, join a KLX250 enthusiasts forum, and then complain they don't like the characteristics of the KLX250?
I'm actually a little sheepish and embarrassed to have the 250, as it's such a legend around here, with people pulling off incredible journeys on them. For example during monsoon season when some villages get cut off from landslides, and no 4x4 can get through? From the mists, covered in mud, comes the guy on the KLX250... I'm 50 this month and consider myself a casual rider, certainly no hot-shot or stunt rider. I know when I had the MTX the guys would tease and ask "So why is a gentle rider like you on such a bike? You should get a KLX150 and sell me your MTX...."
Turning up at the next ride on a brand new KLX250, they're gonna tease me ragged, because they know the bike is so much more capable than I am - and no offense, but off-road I can probably outride many of this forum's members.
In fact that probably sums up what I'm rambling on about... until you can out-ride a KLX250's abilities, on the kind of terrain and ride it's designed for, perhaps it's best to understand the bike first, rather than presuming there's something wrong with it?
Kawasaki are plenty capable of creating a sharp, snappy machine with gobs of power - see the KX - whereas the KLX is built for a different purpose. And it's very, very good at it.
Peace.
That's a Crock of **** right there.
Maybe you are use to the "Old 2 strokes". Try something in this decade. I was a 4 stroke guy until I discovered Beta. My Beta Xtrainer with a 300 2-stroke motor will amaze you on the power delivery. Smooth with more low end grunt then any 4-stroke I have owned. Do some research. By far the best trail bike I have owned. YES it is Street legal too.
That picture of your trails, looks like a road my car could go on.
Last edited by cmott426; 06-17-2016 at 06:58 PM.
#18
06-17-2016, 07:14 PM
I'll translate:
I have another humble opinion -
There is a new breed of 2 strokes that pickup where the KDX's left off - Beta Xtrainer, KTM Freerides', etc.. They should do quite well in Borneo if available.
It looks like your trail is a 2 track - So what vehicles are around there that can do that trail, any cars?
Have a great day.
I have another humble opinion -
There is a new breed of 2 strokes that pickup where the KDX's left off - Beta Xtrainer, KTM Freerides', etc.. They should do quite well in Borneo if available.
It looks like your trail is a 2 track - So what vehicles are around there that can do that trail, any cars?
Have a great day.
Last edited by Klxster; 06-17-2016 at 07:30 PM.
#19
06-17-2016, 08:01 PM
I'll translate:
I have another humble opinion -
There is a new breed of 2 strokes that pickup where the KDX's left off - Beta Xtrainer, KTM Freerides', etc.. They should do quite well in Borneo if available.
It looks like your trail is a 2 track - So what vehicles are around there that can do that trail, any cars?
Have a great day.
I have another humble opinion -
There is a new breed of 2 strokes that pickup where the KDX's left off - Beta Xtrainer, KTM Freerides', etc.. They should do quite well in Borneo if available.
It looks like your trail is a 2 track - So what vehicles are around there that can do that trail, any cars?
Have a great day.