Kawasaki better get back in the game!
#1
06-12-2015, 11:50 PM
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fairfield Cnty CT
Posts: 319
Kawasaki better get back in the game!
New 2015 Yamaha WR250F and YZ250FX Revealed! - Dirt Rider Magazine
I wanted a KLX450R back in the day but wound up with a KLX250S. Now I don't have the option!
I'm gonna wait this out but I may see Green become Blue in my shed soon!
I wanted a KLX450R back in the day but wound up with a KLX250S. Now I don't have the option!
I'm gonna wait this out but I may see Green become Blue in my shed soon!
#2
06-13-2015, 02:13 AM
New 2015 Yamaha WR250F and YZ250FX Revealed! - Dirt Rider Magazine
I wanted a KLX450R back in the day but wound up with a KLX250S. Now I don't have the option!
I'm gonna wait this out but I may see Green become Blue in my shed soon!
I wanted a KLX450R back in the day but wound up with a KLX250S. Now I don't have the option!
I'm gonna wait this out but I may see Green become Blue in my shed soon!
#5
06-13-2015, 03:43 AM
IF you can plate it.
Where I live it's been impossible since the laws changed in 2008. You CANNOT plate ANY offroad vehicles here now.
Where I live it's been impossible since the laws changed in 2008. You CANNOT plate ANY offroad vehicles here now.
#6
06-13-2015, 05:59 AM
Pff, nice bike but I can't even buy certain parts here in California so I won't even dream of what I'd plate if I could. My buddy has a plated side by side in Arizona...so jealous...
#7
06-13-2015, 01:31 PM
You mean to dual sport and bring down to their level? After all in case you didn't read the article, to do the Kaw to match the YZ250FX would be to add the stuff to the KX250F. It's an enduroed MX bike.
Fact is Kawasaki hasn't built a 250 enduro for years, possibly decades, since they did the KLX300 and the KDX200/220. But they did do the KLX450R which IS an enduro. Go find one and you have a Kaw that will do what you want plus some.
The only thing I see is that Kaw doesn't see a market there that is worth trying to cut a chunk out of. Fact is in Dirt Rider's shoot out including both of those, the Honda CRF250X was chosen as the best general buy for most, yet is still pretty much what they did a couple years back and still carbureted... it was considered the easiest to ride and a pipe/gearing would be better yet and also chosen as the #1 pick by the Best in Desert, SCORE, and AMA Hare & Hound National Champ. But sales on it suck due to preconceived notions and the Yamaha sales suck because of the same thing. Go look at ADVrider forum and see the KTM bias. I'm sure Dirt Rider will catch a lot of crap on their shoot out which included KTM and others.
It just isn't worth it to try to chase this market. I just hope they finally get back in the 250 dual sport market. In our market in eastern and southeastern Ohio riders went for KTMs or MX bikes over the WR250F or CRF250X. I never did sell one and I think in the years the dealership had trouble selling even when cut to the absolute limit and losing money. The prejudices overruled reality.
I'd love to see the innovation they use in sport bikes and tourers used here, but the rewards just don't usually show up. They did it in 1993 with both the KLX 650R and C models, but those didn't sell. The KLR and XR650L sold over the KLX in spite of the KLX having superior horsepower and general performance. The rewards just aren't there. And that is speaking from real experience selling the bikes through the years from 83-06. With the market the way it is right now, you won't likely see it happen.
I had a KLX650 group member send me several magazines from the time. It was kind of eye opening. Seemed the KLX engine made the KLX650R a great ride in general for a majority of the riders who don't race or ride in extreme conditions constantly. It also seemed the KLX650C dual sport was a shock and fork springs away from being top dog back then and would still be tops from Japan if it was still here today when it comes to engine power... but they didn't sell.
By the way the "heavy and slow" complaints weren't valid, it seemed DirtBike! found the KLX650R to be an incredible bike, with an engine superior to anything out there. It was panned as a racer, but only as a racer. In fact they found the R rather a contradictory bike in that it would actually work great in tight going in spite of the weight, even against the smaller lighter 250s. The weight actually came more into play when speed went up, even with tricked suspension, the suspension couldn't really control the weight when the going got fast and rough on trails. Aka it wasn't a good MX bike. In a serious MX oriented build the weight was still the issue at speed and engine issues came into play when pounded like an MX bike. But it was a really good woods bike - what most enduros would be used for.
Seems DirtBike!, known for not pulling punches, loved the motor and the bike in general use, but found it just wasn't there as a racer. But a majority of those bikes were ridden for recreation, not racing. It turned out to be a great play bike as most of us really could use (if you are big enough). I will say the Aussies took to the bikes and it stayed in Australia for I think around 10 years. Their dual sport laws are more flexible I think too, since there was a road legal KLX450R dual sport.
The KLX300 suffered a similar fate, but lasted longer due to cost and that a lot of us aren't that big, so the lighter bike worked and sold a shade better. In our market in eastern Ohio riders for off road stayed with MX bikes instead. But I remember the KLX300 was a pipe and a carb away from being a great off roader - sound familiar? The world market forced the 250 dual sport versus doing the 300, kind of a shame. I got my 250 due to price and size, I couldn't fork out the green for the Yamaha WR R and don't want to screw with dual sporting an off roader. Plus I can increment the performance upward without spending a fortune as I want.
It would be interesting to see Kawasaki or any others get the guts to take the chance to put out a serious 350-450 relatively light weight based on their enduro 450 they built. Dual sport and DOT it one way or another, then do a "Yamaha FJR1300" with it - When Yamaha brought in the FJR they took non-refundable $500 deposits from dealers with guaranteed sales. If a rider wants one or a dealer wants to stock one, they buy it - period. Yamaha sold plenty enough to make it a success. If Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, or Honda did it, they would force the market to either put up or shut up. Prove out that it isn't that they can't do the bike - it is that it won't sell.
I honestly think Yamaha is doing what they are doing for racing and just to see if they can carve out a bit of the market, creeping into it. Honda is making the bikes, but not really pushing the limits. Until it becomes clear that the riders will buy at a fair price, they're usually a thou or so below KTM and others, I don't look for much to happen.
Fact is Kawasaki hasn't built a 250 enduro for years, possibly decades, since they did the KLX300 and the KDX200/220. But they did do the KLX450R which IS an enduro. Go find one and you have a Kaw that will do what you want plus some.
The only thing I see is that Kaw doesn't see a market there that is worth trying to cut a chunk out of. Fact is in Dirt Rider's shoot out including both of those, the Honda CRF250X was chosen as the best general buy for most, yet is still pretty much what they did a couple years back and still carbureted... it was considered the easiest to ride and a pipe/gearing would be better yet and also chosen as the #1 pick by the Best in Desert, SCORE, and AMA Hare & Hound National Champ. But sales on it suck due to preconceived notions and the Yamaha sales suck because of the same thing. Go look at ADVrider forum and see the KTM bias. I'm sure Dirt Rider will catch a lot of crap on their shoot out which included KTM and others.
It just isn't worth it to try to chase this market. I just hope they finally get back in the 250 dual sport market. In our market in eastern and southeastern Ohio riders went for KTMs or MX bikes over the WR250F or CRF250X. I never did sell one and I think in the years the dealership had trouble selling even when cut to the absolute limit and losing money. The prejudices overruled reality.
I'd love to see the innovation they use in sport bikes and tourers used here, but the rewards just don't usually show up. They did it in 1993 with both the KLX 650R and C models, but those didn't sell. The KLR and XR650L sold over the KLX in spite of the KLX having superior horsepower and general performance. The rewards just aren't there. And that is speaking from real experience selling the bikes through the years from 83-06. With the market the way it is right now, you won't likely see it happen.
I had a KLX650 group member send me several magazines from the time. It was kind of eye opening. Seemed the KLX engine made the KLX650R a great ride in general for a majority of the riders who don't race or ride in extreme conditions constantly. It also seemed the KLX650C dual sport was a shock and fork springs away from being top dog back then and would still be tops from Japan if it was still here today when it comes to engine power... but they didn't sell.
By the way the "heavy and slow" complaints weren't valid, it seemed DirtBike! found the KLX650R to be an incredible bike, with an engine superior to anything out there. It was panned as a racer, but only as a racer. In fact they found the R rather a contradictory bike in that it would actually work great in tight going in spite of the weight, even against the smaller lighter 250s. The weight actually came more into play when speed went up, even with tricked suspension, the suspension couldn't really control the weight when the going got fast and rough on trails. Aka it wasn't a good MX bike. In a serious MX oriented build the weight was still the issue at speed and engine issues came into play when pounded like an MX bike. But it was a really good woods bike - what most enduros would be used for.
Seems DirtBike!, known for not pulling punches, loved the motor and the bike in general use, but found it just wasn't there as a racer. But a majority of those bikes were ridden for recreation, not racing. It turned out to be a great play bike as most of us really could use (if you are big enough). I will say the Aussies took to the bikes and it stayed in Australia for I think around 10 years. Their dual sport laws are more flexible I think too, since there was a road legal KLX450R dual sport.
The KLX300 suffered a similar fate, but lasted longer due to cost and that a lot of us aren't that big, so the lighter bike worked and sold a shade better. In our market in eastern Ohio riders for off road stayed with MX bikes instead. But I remember the KLX300 was a pipe and a carb away from being a great off roader - sound familiar? The world market forced the 250 dual sport versus doing the 300, kind of a shame. I got my 250 due to price and size, I couldn't fork out the green for the Yamaha WR R and don't want to screw with dual sporting an off roader. Plus I can increment the performance upward without spending a fortune as I want.
It would be interesting to see Kawasaki or any others get the guts to take the chance to put out a serious 350-450 relatively light weight based on their enduro 450 they built. Dual sport and DOT it one way or another, then do a "Yamaha FJR1300" with it - When Yamaha brought in the FJR they took non-refundable $500 deposits from dealers with guaranteed sales. If a rider wants one or a dealer wants to stock one, they buy it - period. Yamaha sold plenty enough to make it a success. If Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, or Honda did it, they would force the market to either put up or shut up. Prove out that it isn't that they can't do the bike - it is that it won't sell.
I honestly think Yamaha is doing what they are doing for racing and just to see if they can carve out a bit of the market, creeping into it. Honda is making the bikes, but not really pushing the limits. Until it becomes clear that the riders will buy at a fair price, they're usually a thou or so below KTM and others, I don't look for much to happen.
Last edited by klx678; 06-13-2015 at 02:10 PM.
#8
06-13-2015, 02:13 PM
You mean to dual sport and bring down to their level? After all in case you didn't read the article, to do the Kaw to match the YZ250FX would be to add the stuff to the KX250F. It's an enduroed MX bike.
Fact is Kawasaki hasn't built a 250 enduro for years, possibly decades, since they did the KLX300 and the KDX200/220. But they did do the KLX450R which IS an enduro. Go find one and you have a Kaw that will do what you want plus some.
The only thing I see is that Kaw doesn't see a market there that is worth trying to cut a chunk out of. Fact is in Dirt Rider's shoot out including both of those, the Honda CRF250X was chosen as the best general buy for most, yet is still pretty much what they did a couple years back and still carbureted... it was considered the easiest to ride and a pipe/gearing would be better yet and also chosen as the #1 pick by the Best in Desert, SCORE, and AMA Hare & Hound National Champ. But sales on it suck due to preconceived notions and the Yamaha sales suck because of the same thing. Go look at ADVrider forum and see the KTM bias. I'm sure Dirt Rider will catch a lot of crap on their shoot out which included KTM and others.
It just isn't worth it to try to chase this market. I just hope they finally get back in the 250 dual sport market.
I'd love to see the innovation they use in sport bikes and tourers used here, but the rewards just don't usually show up. They did it in 1993 with both the KLX 650R and C models, but those didn't sell. The KLR and XR650L sold over the KLX in spite of the KLX having superior horsepower and general performance. The rewards just aren't there. And that is speaking from real experience selling the bikes through the years from 83-06. With the market the way it is right now, you won't likely see it happen.
It would be interesting to see Kawasaki get the guts to take the chance to put out a serious 350-450 relatively light weight based on their KLX450 they built. Dual sport and DOT it one way or another, then do a "Yamaha FJR1300" with it - When Yamaha brought in the FJR they took non-refundable $500 deposits from dealers with guaranteed sales. If a rider wants one or a dealer wants to stock one, they buy it - period. Yamaha sold plenty enough to make it a success. If Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, or Honda did it, they would force the market to either put up or shut up.
Fact is Kawasaki hasn't built a 250 enduro for years, possibly decades, since they did the KLX300 and the KDX200/220. But they did do the KLX450R which IS an enduro. Go find one and you have a Kaw that will do what you want plus some.
The only thing I see is that Kaw doesn't see a market there that is worth trying to cut a chunk out of. Fact is in Dirt Rider's shoot out including both of those, the Honda CRF250X was chosen as the best general buy for most, yet is still pretty much what they did a couple years back and still carbureted... it was considered the easiest to ride and a pipe/gearing would be better yet and also chosen as the #1 pick by the Best in Desert, SCORE, and AMA Hare & Hound National Champ. But sales on it suck due to preconceived notions and the Yamaha sales suck because of the same thing. Go look at ADVrider forum and see the KTM bias. I'm sure Dirt Rider will catch a lot of crap on their shoot out which included KTM and others.
It just isn't worth it to try to chase this market. I just hope they finally get back in the 250 dual sport market.
I'd love to see the innovation they use in sport bikes and tourers used here, but the rewards just don't usually show up. They did it in 1993 with both the KLX 650R and C models, but those didn't sell. The KLR and XR650L sold over the KLX in spite of the KLX having superior horsepower and general performance. The rewards just aren't there. And that is speaking from real experience selling the bikes through the years from 83-06. With the market the way it is right now, you won't likely see it happen.
It would be interesting to see Kawasaki get the guts to take the chance to put out a serious 350-450 relatively light weight based on their KLX450 they built. Dual sport and DOT it one way or another, then do a "Yamaha FJR1300" with it - When Yamaha brought in the FJR they took non-refundable $500 deposits from dealers with guaranteed sales. If a rider wants one or a dealer wants to stock one, they buy it - period. Yamaha sold plenty enough to make it a success. If Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, or Honda did it, they would force the market to either put up or shut up.
I'm not racing dirt bikes anymore like I did for decades. My well modded KLX does everything I need it to do in Utah, Colorado, or elsewhere on my adventure trips for trail riding. Screw the market.
#10
06-13-2015, 07:33 PM
Like I said, the manufacturers should do what they did with the FJR provided they can. See if they can get enough riders to bring the bike and parts inventory in. EFI and the necessary exhaust system may be needed to make them conform and testing will cost a small fortune, but they may be able to do what is needed to be ready to do it. Then it would be up to the riders/dealers put up the money and if enough sell, it comes in.
To me that is the way it should work on niche markets for Japan. Being able to plate off roaders is starting to go away big time. States are able to look at titles and tell if the bike actually was EPA/DOT certified to start, making it impossible to bring a plated off roader into the state. i believe CA is like that already.
On TNC's Euro bike comments. When I was talking with the parts manager where I bought my stuff, we got on the topic of KTMs. He had been the dealer on them, selling out to the shop where he was working. He had known me for over 20 years and knew what I could do, but more importantly he knew what I would like to do and how I ride. He said the KTM would be more maintenance intensive than my riding and the amount of maintenance I would want to do. I like to ride it, not screw with it and here is the former dealer telling me his candid opinion.
Of course I'm thinking a CRF250X or YZ250FX or WR250F would be pretty much the same as the KTMs. Low maintenance and high performance just don't always go hand in hand. Just doesn't happen. If it did you wouldn't see off roaders with Japanese bikes doing the same maintenance as the Euro riders. No "free lunch" there.
To me that is the way it should work on niche markets for Japan. Being able to plate off roaders is starting to go away big time. States are able to look at titles and tell if the bike actually was EPA/DOT certified to start, making it impossible to bring a plated off roader into the state. i believe CA is like that already.
On TNC's Euro bike comments. When I was talking with the parts manager where I bought my stuff, we got on the topic of KTMs. He had been the dealer on them, selling out to the shop where he was working. He had known me for over 20 years and knew what I could do, but more importantly he knew what I would like to do and how I ride. He said the KTM would be more maintenance intensive than my riding and the amount of maintenance I would want to do. I like to ride it, not screw with it and here is the former dealer telling me his candid opinion.
Of course I'm thinking a CRF250X or YZ250FX or WR250F would be pretty much the same as the KTMs. Low maintenance and high performance just don't always go hand in hand. Just doesn't happen. If it did you wouldn't see off roaders with Japanese bikes doing the same maintenance as the Euro riders. No "free lunch" there.
Last edited by klx678; 06-13-2015 at 07:37 PM.
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